A beautiful day was scarred by a hideous incident in the Lake City district of Seattle.
During a lunch break I spotted a girl with sandals - one on and one off. She had removed one and was trying to adjust the strap when I noticed her .. and her feet.
As is often the case, I remarked admiringly about her feet. This seemed to take her quite by surprise as she replied "EXCUSE ME? Did I hear you right? What are you anyway, some kind of a perv?".
I explained (again) that I had been attracted by her feet, the fact that she had a sandal on one foot, the other bare, etc. - going further to suggest that we find a place to have Coffee, talk about her feet then see about posing for foot photos.
She WENT OFF, flying into a tirade of insults; "are you some kind of an idiot?", "who do you think you are?", etc. SO - I then said "What's the matter, you don't drink coffee?" ..... and she REALLY WENT OFF!!!!!
"YOU @#$%%& PIECE OF @#$*(&, @!%$#*&, AND I WILL %$#@!&^ *&!@#$%, IF YOU EVER @#$&^%$, !@#%$&^%$#$ ^%^%&#$!@#$%&@. She actually punched me in the shoulder with her fist during this shower of expletives.
I started heading down the sidewalk to avert further rage and as I did, she hurled a grilled, stuffed burrito (from Taco Bell) with the speed and swiftness of Dennis Eckersley in the ninth inning - fortunately, she did not have Eckersley's accuracy, as the burrito sailed over my shoulder and landed several feet in front of me.
My car was nearby, but I didn't want this enraged nutcase to know which car was mine (or to know my plate number) - so I darted into the crowd and walked briskly until I found a huge Fred Meyer to get lost in. I went back out to my car about ten minutes later, the coast was clear and I had successfully escaped the "burrito assault".
One thing is clear - I won't be posting any "new discoveries" in the photo section of these forums tonight. Even if I had managed to click a "shot-on-the-run" of this girl, I'd have a HECK of a time getting a model release out of her.
The last time this happened (last year in Portland), Liv and Nizaara were with me. Thank Heavens none of the footgirls were with me this time. Lesson learned here is that not all girls take kindly to positive remarks about their feet. It was a sobering incident but I'm hoping for better luck next time around.
[ March 16, 2006, 10:23 PM: Message edited by: Ben Del Amitri ]
Posted by Skorpius (Member # 10122) on :
Man, glad you are ok. Hate to see ya get kicked or worse, arrested. Tread carefully, dude.
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Hello MissMcKenzie -
The fact that she hurled the burrito was funny and because of it's shape, weight and the way it's balanced, it really did SAIL.
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Hello Skorpius -
Little incidents like this are far below the legal radar, but it's actually I who would have had a case against her - and she, who would have been in peril of arrest, if it had ever come to that. Simple assault, shouting live obscenities in public, maybe even "assault by burrito".
These things do happen every once in awhile but you can't let them affect your standard operating procedures.
Posted by Sinnister (Member # 2394) on :
This is what I hate about women.
If you said that to a guy, he wouldn't do ish.
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
This is also what I love about women though; for every nutcase like this, you've also got girls who react 360 degrees opposite and differently.
Girls such as Jacqueline, Cassandra, Victoria, Emma and others, all of whom embraced the beauty of their feet (and the feedback they fostered) with pleasure and a willingness to serve them up.
These are but a few recent examples but the world is full of them and this is not to mention Malory, Kirsten, Kristin and many others - girls who were once approached by "a strange guy" with a strange request ..... and who later ended up on the web, in these forums and at famed foot events throughout the country (and in Germany).
It's a big, beautiful world full of amazing girls (and FEET). A few isolated nutcases like this one come and go quickly, soon to be forever forgotten.
Posted by guitardrew (Member # 6635) on :
hahahaha, well Ben your reaction to all this is perfect I must say. The sooner we all realize what is really going on when these type of things happen (that the problem lie with HER, obviously her outlook on life in general isnt too healthy and her ignorance can be laughed at like Ben did here saying, "so.. you dont like coffee then?") the sooner we can all get out there and do what Ben is doing! Finding the humor in these things is not simply 'the positive way' to look at it, it simply is what it is from Ben's (or our) point of view because HE is not the one all worked up and angry. Too bad you caught her under some horrible circumstances Ben, but you suuure dont need any reassurance about anything with all the incredible footgirls who frequent your life. I think this is a great learning experience for all of us out there scared of girls' worst reactions, and how to handle them, it isnt the end of the world and next time youll be showing us yet another beauty!
Posted by cjmeyer (Member # 1621) on :
Hey!Its a jungle out there.Those flying burritos have been known to kill.Glad to see you made out allright
Posted by iluvfeet4me (Member # 12488) on :
With the posts I have seen since I have been here you have had far more Good experiences than bad. Your posts are always a pleasure to read and the pics and stories you share are Really good. Hey...at least you tried. You never know if you don't ask right?
Posted by Mighty Mike (Member # 1922) on :
lol I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often to be honest Ben
I wish I had your confidence though
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
quote:Originally posted by cjmeyer: Hey!Its a jungle out there.Those flying burritos have been known to kill.Glad to see you made out allright
Hello cjmeyer -
You're absolutely right! In point of fact, those "Grilled Stuffed" burritos in particular are some of the most potentially dangerous; they've got sharp corners, hard surfaces and a lot of weight behind them.
From this point on, I'm going to try and enrage only people carrying NORMAL burritos.
Posted by iluvfeet4me (Member # 12488) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mighty Mike: lol I'm surprised this doesn't happen more often to be honest Ben
I wish I had your confidence though
If I did what Ben does I'd have more than Burrito's thrown at me. Probably grenades.... Posted by Mtndukid (Member # 1030) on :
It's women like that that really make it hard on us.. Glad you are ok Ben
Posted by scarlet (Member # 2117) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ben Del Amitri: This is also what I love about women though; for every nutcase like this, you've also got girls who react 360 degrees opposite and differently.
Girls such as Jacqueline, Cassandra, Victoria, Emma and others, all of whom embraced the beauty of their feet (and the feedback they fostered) with pleasure and a willingness to serve them up.
These are but a few recent examples but the world is full of them and this is not to mention Malory, Kirsten, Kristin and many others - girls who were once approached by "a strange guy" with a strange request ..... and who later ended up on the web, in these forums and at famed foot events throughout the country (and in Germany).
It's a big, beautiful world full of amazing girls (and FEET). A few isolated nutcases like this one come and go quickly, soon to be forever forgotten.
Think you mean 180 degrees hehe.
Sadly, however, things like these aren't below legal radar anymore. With that fat teacher that forced a child to lick her toes, to the man that solicited two 15 year olds to model shoes for him and got caught...it can be easily considered sexual harassment for approaching a stranger like that. Especially if she gets as mad as she did.
good luck in the future though )
Posted by Hal (Member # 3484) on :
Ben, I feel sorry for you. What an aweful experience. Good thing you got out of the sitiuation so well. Maybe she was a lesbian and hates men? Maybe she had just had a really really bad day and she would have also snapped if you`d just asked her for a light? Maybe she was just a psycho...
Anyway, I think you reacted really well. The best thing to do is flee. I´ve talked to loads of women on the street (about their feet) but haven`t had a similer experience, yet. Very glad about it, too. But a woman getting a fit and embarrassing & insulting me on the street, that would be my nightmare...no wait, my nightmare would be a lady like her PLUS she`s still throwing her taco at me.
Not really a good experience for you but I love the way you wrote it, really made me laugh.
-Hal-
Posted by Dazzz (Member # 12539) on :
mate she sounds like a weirdo. it just reminds me that some people are affraid of what they dont know about sometimes
Posted by catsman (Member # 10269) on :
After the burito hit the pavement, you should have turned around and ask her if she'd then like to remove both her sandals, and squish the remaining burito pieces........LOLOLOLOL
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
quote:Originally posted by iluvfeet4me: With the posts I have seen since I have been here you have had far more Good experiences than bad. Your posts are always a pleasure to read and the pics and stories you share are Really good. Hey...at least you tried. You never know if you don't ask right?
Hello iluvfeet4me -
That's the key alright, just hoping to have more good experiences than bad. The way things have been going, I was overdue for something like this. Great to get it out of the way (get HER out of the way) and make room for another good one.
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Hello Scarlet -
Yes, I did mean 360 degrees, meaning it was as opposite as opposite can be. As to legal considerations, I would invite your attention to the fact that your examples are even more than "360 degrees" different than this:
1. There were no minors involved, as in the examples you site.
2. No physical contact occured (or was solicted), as in both your examples.
3. "Sexual Harrassment" laws are written for and apply to work place; do not apply and have no meaning (legal or otherwise) in public places between or relative to strangers.
4. Asking a girl for coffee and to see her feet in a public place, on a public street is just that. No possible legal ramifications whatsoever.
5. There was obviously no teacher-student relationship and this occured in public, on a public street, as opposed to a school or workplace of any kind.
6. Photographing a girl's feet IS NOT ILLEGAL! If you check around the internet a bit you will find millions of "foot photos" of all possible types.
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
quote:Originally posted by guitardrew: hahahaha, well Ben your reaction to all this is perfect I must say. The sooner we all realize what is really going on when these type of things happen (that the problem lie with HER, obviously her outlook on life in general isnt too healthy and her ignorance can be laughed at like Ben did here saying, "so.. you dont like coffee then?") the sooner we can all get out there and do what Ben is doing! Finding the humor in these things is not simply 'the positive way' to look at it, it simply is what it is from Ben's (or our) point of view because HE is not the one all worked up and angry. Too bad you caught her under some horrible circumstances Ben, but you suuure dont need any reassurance about anything with all the incredible footgirls who frequent your life. I think this is a great learning experience for all of us out there scared of girls' worst reactions, and how to handle them, it isnt the end of the world and next time youll be showing us yet another beauty!
Hello Guitardrew -
You hit the nail right on the head!
Your interpretation of this is precisely what I was hoping to convey by posting this and exactly what I came away from the experience with. The fact is, this is all pretty simple:
1. Girl goes nuts - her problem not mine / ours. 2. Girl and situation not worth worrying about. Walk away and it's done. 3. Situation, although not pleasant, presented an opportunity for levity "What's the matter, you don't drink coffee?" (and that WAS rewarding!)
Back in the car, back to normal - and eager to see what the next hour may bring!
Posted by scarlet (Member # 2117) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ben Del Amitri: Hello Scarlet -
Yes, I did mean 360 degrees, meaning it was as opposite as opposite can be. As to legal considerations, I would invite your attention to the fact that your examples are even more than "360 degrees" different than this:
1. There were no minors involved, as in the examples you site.
2. No physical contact occured (or was solicted), as in both your examples.
3. "Sexual Harrassment" laws are written for and apply to work place; do not apply and have no meaning (legal or otherwise) in public places between or relative to strangers.
4. Asking a girl for coffee and to see her feet in a public place, on a public street is just that. No possible legal ramifications whatsoever.
5. There was obviously no teacher-student relationship and this occured in public, on a public street, as opposed to a school or workplace of any kind.
6. Photographing a girl's feet IS NOT ILLEGAL! If you check around the internet a bit you will find millions of "foot photos" of all possible types.
There are plenty of harassment laws for outside the workplace. She called you a perv, she knew what you were up to, so if she reported it *would* be treated the same as someone asking her if he can photograph her nude. I'm not saying stop, but just realize the consequences if you do find someone like that who does pursue a report.
And with all due respect, it is 180 degrees. Doing a 360 puts you right back in the same spot you started from. You can not do an opposite 360. Opposite of a starting point is a 180. (90 turns you right or left, 180 turns you to opposite side, 360 is one complete circle)
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Hello Hal -
It was a funny experience overall and these things don't happen very often. The last time, was almost a year ago and that was down in Portland. Like this, it was also a quick moment in time.
Posted by lambskin (Member # 1542) on :
Ben,
That was hillarious. The part where you said, "what's the matter, you don't drink coffee" had me nearly falling out of my seat
Ben, you do this as much as you and you're bound to run across a nut case. A more appropriate response on her part would have been a simple "no thank you". Fortunately, as you've pointed out, most of the women are beautiful, smart, nice, and accepting. Keep up the good work. Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Hello Scarlet -
You're still wrong, and (still) missed the entire point of the post. Also completely unaware of the legal ramifications of, and what constitutes "sexual harrassment". Like the incident itself. doesn't matter anymore.
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
quote:Originally posted by lambskin: Ben,
That was hillarious. The part where you said, "what's the matter, you don't drink coffee" had me nearly falling out of my seat
Ben, you do this as much as you and you're bound to run across a nut case. A more appropriate response on her part would have been a simple "no thank you". Fortunately, as you've pointed out, most of the women are beautiful, smart, nice, and accepting. Keep up the good work.
Hello Lambskin -
That's pretty much it! Do this often enough and you will certainly come across an isolated nut case from time to time.
What has always been interesting to me (and gratifying) is the fact that girls (in my view) are VERY dear people and very good at finding nice ways to say "no thank you". In my efforts out here, I do come across girls who are not interested - and those who think this is absolutely crazy ... yet even they are usually kind and polite in their refusal, almost always.
Posted by dougiezerts (Member # 6829) on :
Please forgive me for sounding a little conservative, Ben, but consider these things: You are VERY open about asking girls to let you photograph their feet. Not all of them are going to be understanding, OK? As for the age issue, how do you know for sure that a girl you're photographing is of age? She very well could be 17 or 16. And how would you find out? "Excuse me, how old are you?" As for legality, some juristictions have passed laws against that sort of thing. I remember hearing about a guy getting 30 days in jail for doing "up-skirt" videos of girls in public. Granted, that's MUCH worse than what we'd do, but the principle's the same. You're photographing women for sexual purposes, so you should be VERY careful about that. If you ask a girl to let you photograph her feet, and she says no, GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE QUICKLY! Don't try to engage her in conversation, it will only make it worse for you. It might even be better to leave the area, for the day; she could decide to call security on you (or her husband/boyfriend!). I used to often take candid photos of barefooted girls, a lot. I tried to be discrete about it, and I rarely talked with them. Occasionally, I'd get caught. Those were umpleasent experiences that I regret. But I think I'd honestly say I deserved what happened to me.
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Hello dougiezerts -
It looks like you haven't read much of what's been said here. We all know that "Not all of them are going to be understanding" - I've mentioned this numerous times in this post, as have others and this is something I obviously realize.
You ask about the age thing - and if you'd read my posts here, that would have been explained for you. First of all, nobody was being "photographed". If you do go back and read throughly, your explanation will be found.
You are wrong in trying to analagize this with doing "upskirt" videos. Completely wrong. First of all, no videos are being made. Secondly, nothing is being made or done without explicit consent of the individual involved. What's happened here is that words have been spoken. Nothing more. The "principal" is not the same.
Your understanding as to the possible "legal" ramififations of this is limited and widely off the mark. You say "some juristictions have passed laws against that sort of thing". I have no idea what you mean by "that sort of thing". What would be an example of "that sort of thing" that you can equivicate with the act of spoken words on a public street between two people?
Believe me, you will find no law, statute or ordinance against speaking with another person publicly and asking her for a date .. or in asking her to take photographs of her .. or in asking to take NUDE photographs of her .. or in asking a complete stranger in public to have sex on film for you.
The worst thing that can happen in a situation such as I have listed above would be a harsh rebuke.
That said, I think you've pretty much missed the actual point of this post altogether. Lighten up, life is good, fun and interesting - if you let it be.
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
quote:Originally posted by catsman: After the burito hit the pavement, you should have turned around and ask her if she'd then like to remove both her sandals, and squish the remaining burito pieces........LOLOLOLOL
Hello catsman -
You know what, that would have been great (and clever). Maybe I should have asked her that first - and then called the police to report her for littering if she refused!
Posted by dougiezerts (Member # 6829) on :
OK, I will admit I haven't looked at all of your posts, Ben. Yes, the girl overreacted. But that's to be expected, and I guess you're well aware of that. But there's something that bothers me, a little, and that is your openness about it. We're not in a situation where foot fetish is completely accepted by everyone, OK? What if you were a little more discrete? Type up a flyer, and hand it out to women you see. It would say that you are a photographer who is attracted to women's feet, and you'd like to take photos of her. You might also give your rates, phone number and email address. If I were in the park observing this situation, I'd be very embarrassed--for both you and her.
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Hello dougiezerts -
Philosophically, you and I are a thousand miles apart on this, but I do appreciate your input. You lament my openness about all of this and that is precisely what I celebrate. I bask in the openness and attribute that to the fact that I'm living a life full of female feet.
You are correct in saying we are not in a situation where foot fetish is completely accepted by everyone; but I have no interest in what "everyone" else thinks about this - or at least that part of "everyone" outside of we foot lovers in this world .. if I did, I'd be just like all the others who are happy to fade into the background and accept whatever cards "everyone" deals out to them.
For me, flyers are for the faint-of-heart. Just ask our friend Outback69 how I feel about business cards sometime and you'll get an idea as to how I feel about flyers. In this arena, they don't work.
Your recommended approach is one I've seen many times; but I've never seen any of those guys capture legitimate, consented foot photos of girls like Nizaara, Victoria, Emma or the others - let alone find enduring friendships with girls like Kirsten, Juliene, Amber, etc. Don't forget, all of these girls were once "strangers" out there and each one approached in a similar way.
I realize that when I make a post like this, I open myself up to detractors who will rush to jump in and say "Haha! You should have known better", "you'd better watch out", etc ... yet have not seen fit to comment on any of the other posts made, regarding SUCCESSFUL situations; and by the way, I've made over 2,000 posts in just the past ten months (I became active here right around May / June of last year).
I'm going to go ahead and respectfully decline your advice; what works good for you is great, and if being discrete, etc. does that, then that's also great.
Posted by dougiezerts (Member # 6829) on :
Well, I hope you'll forgive me for some of the comments I made to you. It's just that like I said earlier, I've been in situations where I did something embarrassing, relating to feet, and was called on it, by someone--the girl, or her husband/boyfriend. So I can really see both sides of the issue. Perhaps I was a little "overzealous!" Hope you understand.
Posted by ghost (Member # 1664) on :
ben i wouldnt take it as a loss at all. you have some of the most gorgeous looking women and sexiest feet on your website and at your parties. while we can never have enough, i would hope his one didnt ruin your day because you always have others to come home and look to. its just a shame that women still some women find us foot men as pervs or freaks. and why? because they were blessed with nice feet and we appreciate it, so that makes us weird right? WHATEVER! your still my hero ben. good luck with the rest fo your adventures as i always look forward to hearing your stories and seeing your pics.
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Hello Ghost -
You are right, and this was nothing of a loss, just a temporary blip on the radar screen. You are also correct in saying we can never get enough - get a couple of tons and you still want another ton.
There are women who may see us as "pervs" (such as this one) but it's refreshing and exciting to me that there are so many other women in this world who understand, appreciate and celebrate this with us.
It is always great hearing from you Mr. Ghost; by the way, your site looks great tonight, it keeps getting better by the day!
Posted by archadmirer (Member # 3142) on :
I was sorry to hear of your latest "incident"... a public berating can deter even the most confident foot-aficionado. I'm glad that your philosophy escaped unscathed (can there be a more egalitarian approach than a sincere proposition?) Your adventures are an inspiration to (almost) all!
Posted by scarlet (Member # 2117) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ben Del Amitri: Hello Scarlet -
You're still wrong, and (still) missed the entire point of the post. Also completely unaware of the legal ramifications of, and what constitutes "sexual harrassment". Like the incident itself. doesn't matter anymore.
Perhaps wrong on the laws of harassment, but not on the other. Haven't you ever heard the term "he pulled a complete 180 on us"? It means opposite, 180 degrees opposite of unaccepting(this case) would be accepting. 360 degrees opposite of unaccepting would be unaccepting. Go one way or another, doing a 360 ends you in the exact spot you started from.
Posted by Malory (Member # 9101) on :
Hey Ben this is too funny! What a crack up & I can almost hear you saying "so you don't like coffee?. It's so kewl you let this stuff fly off like water off a ducks back, that's the best way to go for sure. From what I just saw in the pictures section you're still beating the odds by a couple hundred. LOL.
~Malory
Posted by Adam X (Member # 2872) on :
SHE THREW A BURRITO AT YOU!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
Sucks to see such great food wasted though.
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Hello Adam X -
She flung that thing with aplomb and expertise! Take away a few points for accuracy, but other than that it was a clean throw. I didn't go back to check later, but the food may not have been wasted. We've got a few billion sea gulls and almost as many Canadian geese up here and they eat everything that isn't made of metal. They are not shy either (or afraid of humans). They'll walk right up to you, when you're trying to eat a hamburger.
My guess is that the burrito probably ended up being the treat of these creatures - or that the hideous creature that tossed it went back for it later.
Posted by ledaemon (Member # 198) on :
Thanks for sharing this story Ben! Now I know for a fact you don't lead a 100% charmed existence!
I suppose you will probably be a little more cautious and take it down a notch on the next potential model you approach. Something like that would've totally put me into a deep blue funk for a week. However, your're quite a bit ballsier than a good majority of us on this forum so I'm sure you'll rebound from this quick and prepare for dodging the next oncoming assault of projectile fast food. Posted by guitardrew (Member # 6635) on :
Hmmm, the legalities of this im not sure about and Im sure Ben has it all worked out since hes been doing this for so long (would seem kinda dumb to have this be the majority of what you do and not have any info on the legalities and such, which he certainly seems to have it taken care of). Everything else though, it seems obvious to me that this post reflects the one fact about it which is that we have a choice as to how an outburst by someone else is going to affect us. thats it. thats the whole deal to me, sure you are going to have sensory reactions at the moment of something like this is happening but the way you feel and the way you act afterward is absolutely 100 percent your choice and within your control. can anyone refute this at all? the pathways are laid out, you can feel bad or be in a funk, you can even be more timid and slow down approaching women, but would that stuff in reality be the burrito pelting girl's fault? nope totally yours because its your choice. you can also choice to disregard it, acknowledge that the only 'problem' is with the woman not you, and simply get right on with your daily activities. sure it may not be this easy for everyone, but if it isnt start moving in this direction, the mind is conditioned mainly through actions, which is why Ben has no trouble 'letting it roll off like water off a duck's back' to quote one of the multiple examples of why all this is true. Posted by dougiezerts (Member # 6829) on :
I'm sorry I got on you last night, Ben. But still, there's something that would concern me--husbands and boyfriends! How do you think you'd react if a guy suddenly approched you and said, "That's my wife you're flirting with, and I don't like it!"? Worse, what if he had a buddy, or two, with him?
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: Thanks for sharing this story Ben! Now I know for a fact you don't lead a 100% charmed existence!
I suppose you will probably be a little more cautious and take it down a notch on the next potential model you approach. Something like that would've totally put me into a deep blue funk for a week. However, your're quite a bit ballsier than a good majority of us on this forum so I'm sure you'll rebound from this quick and prepare for dodging the next oncoming assault of projectile fast food.
Hello ledaemon -
The rebound has already begun; it was a beautiful day up her with sun shining and I did manage to speak with a few beautiful girls (with beautiful feet), garnering something closer to what's become "normal" in the response(s).
I'll need a little more practice to become adept at dodging those projectiles but will (hopefully) not be doing much of that for awhile.
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
quote:Originally posted by archadmirer: I was sorry to hear of your latest "incident"... a public berating can deter even the most confident foot-aficionado. I'm glad that your philosophy escaped unscathed (can there be a more egalitarian approach than a sincere proposition?) Your adventures are an inspiration to (almost) all!
Hello archadmirer -
It's the fact that when you submerge from situations such as this with your core values intact and philosophies unscathed - that you leave the wretched refuse far behind and forget about it almost as quickly. Thanks for the (welcome) input.
Posted by Bman (Member # 2267) on :
Hello Ben. I just dont get it. You did nothing wrong here. Giving a lady a compliment on her eyes, hands, hair, or even her feet is not sexual harrasment. That taco tosser is a pyscho and a crazy bitch.....larry b.
Posted by Gimme (Member # 6872) on :
Having read all of your stories about how you ve met all these foot girls and having seen your photos, I must admit that I thought all this was some kind of gimmick. A gimmick which intended to attract the US living members of this Forum for all these Foot parties to attend. However, I thought instantly that my difficulty to perform such a thing as yours, i.e. to approach and attract all these foot girls.. it doesn't mean that it is impossible.
After having read this unfortunate incident I realised that "schit" happens to everyone even YOURSELF: The one who is picking those girls and delivering, as far as I ve read in posts and reviews or elsewhere, many extra powerful Foot parties in the US
Anyway, it happened to me once... but not in this unorderly and bad fashion like the one this "girl" did. In my case, she just replied in a civilised manner that she is being disturbed and that's all....no harm feelings. Ever since I ve learnt my lesson and tried several different approaches and tricks for every case.
I guess one never knows what's in people's minds until he/she pushes the right (or wrong) button in them.
I hope, wholehartedly, that this was the first (?) and the last incident in this endeavour you ve chosen to follow. And I ll say it once again: [u]It's a pity I can't have the choice of attending parties like these because I live far away from there.[/u]
Gimme.
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Hello Bman -
"Taco Tosser" ... I LOVE that! As to the taco-tossing phycho? You'll get no argument from me on that!!
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Hello Gimme -
This has happened before and it's happened a number of time - yet usually, not to this degree. As to us trying to generate interest in foot party attendance? Well I can tell you that we are not looking for guests and in fact, have no room for new guests (either in Seattle or Portland). The guest lists are full and we close them down weeks before any event. We are the only foot party in America (I think) that regulates our guest list and numbers ... and turns many away.
Further - that we are pretty much on a "membership basis" these days anyway; meaning we are relying on known, repeated guests - rather than trying to recruit new ones. New people are always welcome, but they must be invited - and that doesn't happen often.
Girls - they are the greatest thing in this world and I love them. It's a pretty large bunch though and full of varied and interesting types. This particular one was not exactly interested in what we are doing, so we move on to the next one .. and there will certainly be a next one.
Posted by Mighty Mike (Member # 1922) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bman: Hello Ben. I just dont get it. You did nothing wrong here. Giving a lady a compliment on her eyes, hands, hair, or even her feet is not sexual harrasment.
actually a girl can file a sexual harrassment lawsuit if you compliment her haircut
Posted by Mighty Mike (Member # 1922) on :
Ben
what is your success rate when approaching girls for foot medeling pics?
would you say most are open or not open?
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Alright, I was really cool about this when the first two knuckleheads came into this thread, with (inane and uninformed) sexual harrassment comments. Enough is enough and I'm going to set this straight right here and now.
For your edification, Mighty Mike - and that of the others who made similar, ridiculous comments, HERE is the actual meaning of "Sexual Harrassment", the reason such laws were conceived, WHO they apply to and the intent thereof. Your attention is invited to the fact that these laws apply ONLY IN THE WORKPLACE, and ... even at that, they do not apply in all workplaces, and that these statutes can not be made to apply in private companies:
Sexual harassment is a form of sex discrimination that violates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Title VII applies to employers with 15 or more employees, including state and local governments. It also applies to employment agencies and to labor organizations, as well as to the federal government.
Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitute sexual harassment when this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance, or creates an intimidating, hostile, or offensive work environment.
Sexual harassment can occur in a variety of circumstances, including but not limited to the following:
* The victim as well as the harasser may be a woman or a man. The victim does not have to be of the opposite sex. * The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, an agent of the employer, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or a non-employee. * The victim does not have to be the person harassed but could be anyone affected by the offensive conduct. * Unlawful sexual harassment may occur without economic injury to or discharge of the victim. * The harasser's conduct must be unwelcome.
Title VII of the Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964 provides that "it shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer . . . to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin."
In a series of major decisions in 1998, the United States Supreme Court clarified and broadened the law. In a unanimous decision in March, 1998 the Court said: "When the workplace is permeated with discriminatory intimidation, ridicule, and insult that is sufficiently severe or pervasive to alter the conditions of the victim's employment and create an abusive working environment, Title VII is violated.
====================
SO - your statement "actually a girl can file a sexual harrassment lawsuit if you compliment her haircut" is patently false, completely wrong and absolutely without merit of any kind, whatsoever.
[ March 20, 2006, 02:53 AM: Message edited by: Ben Del Amitri ]
Posted by scarlet (Member # 2117) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ben Del Amitri: Alright, I was really cool about this when the first two knuckleheads came into this thread, with (inane and uninformed) sexual harrassment comments. Enough is enough and I'm going to set this straight right here and now.
For your edification, Mighty Mike - and that of the others who made similar, ridiculous comments, HERE is the actual meaning of "Sexual Harrassment", the reason such laws were conceived, WHO they apply to and the intent thereof. Your attention is invited to the fact that these laws apply ONLY IN THE WORKPLACE, and ... even at that, they do not apply in all workplaces, and that these statutes can not be made to apply in private companies:
Sexual harassment is a form of sex discrimination that violates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Title VII applies to employers with 15 or more employees, including state and local governments. It also applies to employment agencies and to labor organizations, as well as to the federal government.
Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitute sexual harassment when this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance, or creates an intimidating, hostile, or offensive work environment.
Sexual harassment can occur in a variety of circumstances, including but not limited to the following:
* The victim as well as the harasser may be a woman or a man. The victim does not have to be of the opposite sex. * The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, an agent of the employer, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or a non-employee. * The victim does not have to be the person harassed but could be anyone affected by the offensive conduct. * Unlawful sexual harassment may occur without economic injury to or discharge of the victim. * The harasser's conduct must be unwelcome.
Title VII of the Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964 provides that "it shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer . . . to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin."
In a series of major decisions in 1998, the United States Supreme Court clarified and broadened the law. In a unanimous decision in March, 1998 the Court said: "When the workplace is permeated with discriminatory intimidation, ridicule, and insult that is sufficiently severe or pervasive to alter the conditions of the victim's employment and create an abusive working environment, Title VII is violated.
====================
SO - your statement "actually a girl can file a sexual harrassment lawsuit if you compliment her haircut" is patently false, completely wrong and absolutely without merit of any kind, whatsoever.
Sexual harassment may not be the exact term for it, but it is definitely illegal to approach a woman and compliment her on something sexual. Walk up to women and say nice tits and see how long your "it isn't harassment if we're not at work!" excuse holds up.
I don't mean to keep responding, but reading a lot of this has been somewhat frustrating for me since you seem similar to those guys that end up in the news, standing by the "it is just feet" mentality to far greater lengths than one should.
Though, you believe doing a 360 turns you opposite, so i'm not sure any of this will sink in.
Posted by Macbrother (Member # 8907) on :
quote:Originally posted by scarlet: Sexual harassment may not be the exact term for it, but it is definitely illegal to approach a woman and compliment her on something sexual. Walk up to women and say nice tits and see how long your "it isn't harassment if we're not at work!" excuse holds up.
No, it isn't. Where did you get the idea it was? There is nothing at all illegal about approaching a random person, male, or female, same sex or opposite, and commenting them on -any- feature, sexual or non, or making any sort of approach whatsoever, in a public place. Ben would be well within his rights to comment her on her feet, ass, tits, whatever, or to invite her to coffee. There is no law concerning that. She is free to refuse, without consequence, unlike within a workplace, which is why sexual harassment is only goverened by laws therein.
Could such advancements be considered rude? Garner you a slap in the face? A thrown taco -- perhaps... but not an arrest, or any legal reprecussions, whatsoever.
quote:I don't mean to keep responding, but reading a lot of this has been somewhat frustrating for me since you seem similar to those guys that end up in the news, standing by the "it is just feet" mentality to far greater lengths than one should.
How is what Ben is doing related in anyway to whatever you are referring to in the news? In -both- examples you cited, it was contact with a minor. In any "news" examples I've seen on here, it always involved theft, (of property, say, shoes, stockings, etc) or a form of sexual assualt (actually touching/licking the feet, etc).
As for turning a 180... I believe you're spot on. Posted by Bondo (Member # 1403) on :
That's one heck of a crazy story Ben! That woman was either having a really bad day or she needs some serious therapy.
...or maybe she just has an "angry burrito" fetish.
Bondo
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Hello Macbrother -
You've hit the nail squarely on the head!
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bondo: That's one heck of a crazy story Ben! That woman was either having a really bad day or she needs some serious therapy.
...or maybe she just has an "angry burrito" fetish.
Bondo
Hello Bondo -
"Angry Burrito" fetish .. now THERE's one fantasy / fetish that would be even more difficult to fulfil and satisfy than our own (and probably a lot less frequently) .. plus, they'd be spending all that extra money on wasted food.
It would be very strange if we were out surfing the web one day and stumbled upon "The Angry Burrito Fetish" site; logged into their forums and found this girl's parallel story to being approached by ME, etc. - and all the other forum members saying things like "Way to GO", "This is GREAT, did it really happen?", "how many burritos did you use on him?", etc.
Posted by Gimme (Member # 6872) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ben Del Amitri: As to us trying to generate interest in foot party attendance? Well I can tell you that we are not looking for guests and in fact, have no room for new guests (either in Seattle or Portland). The guest lists are full and we close them down weeks before any event. We are the only foot party in America (I think) that regulates our guest list and numbers ... and turns many away.
Further - that we are pretty much on a "membership basis" these days anyway; meaning we are relying on known, repeated guests - rather than trying to recruit new ones. New people are always welcome, but they must be invited - and that doesn't happen often.
Thanks for the nice info on that. I know that in these happenings only "close circle" members can attend. And I understand that ... common sense to us all. I would have done the same thing. Because you dont want to get rather "unfortunate moments" and lame brats around there Fair enough. The only kinds of things we have here in Greece are the mainstream strip clubs packed with lots of ex-Eastern block girls, but they have no foot fetish education to show whatsoever. Skip that then
Gimme.
Posted by Bondo (Member # 1403) on :
LOL @ Ben and "The Angry Burrito Fetish Forum". The next time you see an attractive woman, you should ask if you can throw a burrito at her just see if she takes her shoes off for you
...er um, or not.
Bondo
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Hello Bondo -
You'd better not start giving me ideas; but if that did happen, it would be GREAT. THEN I'd really have something to write home about (or worry about??!!?).
Posted by Stryder_007 (Member # 13405) on :
A teacher forced a student to likc her toes? And that mad with the shoes? Where can I find the links to those stories?
As far as the gilr getting mad at you Ben, I can see it happen. For a woman it probably looks as saying they have nice tits or a nice ass. I have told girls in the past that they have a nice body, some thought I was sweet and some thought I was just being a horndog. I've told some girls I hooked up with about my fetish. Some reacted like it was disgusting and that feet were diry and gross, some thought it was the greatest thing once they tried it. And a few had actually dated guys before with fetishes and were totally down with it. And some who were new to it didn't have much if an opinion one way or the other (they just let me have my way with their feet anyway). I guess my point is that everyone reacts to things differently. It could be a possibility that some guys made lewd remarks about her body (gawking and such) and yours could have been the straw that broke the camels back. I wouldn't trip over it. I imagine you told her about her feet in a respectful way. You didn't do anything wrong. In fact I give props.
Posted by pacfootluver (Member # 9180) on :
I gotta say this is a funny story. You never know how a girl is gionog to react so I guess thats why 99% of us just stay in the background and fantasize. Thanks for being one of those rare guys who dares to be different Ben because things like this are unpleasant but we know it's all worth it in the end. And by the way I KNOW you know this but there's still no laws against spoken words regardless of what a few others might say.
Posted by pacfootluver (Member # 9180) on :
(Phone to police department rings)
"Hello this is the police"
(Jane Doe): "Hello I need to report a crime"
"Ok what's the crime"
(Jane Doe): "Some guy came up to me and said he like my feet!
"Yes???"
(Jane Doe): "I TOLD YOU HE SAID HE LIKED MY FEET. I want him picked up for sexual harrasment"
"Did this man assault you?"
(Jane Doe): No but he said he liked my feet and invited me to have coffee with him! He said if things worked out he'd like to talk to me about taking pictures of my feet"
"I'm sorry mam that's not a crime by any law at all. Did this man try to abduct you, pull a weapon, make any threats of any kind or make any spedific advances? Did did you have coffee with him?
(Jane Doe): NO I didnt. I told him off good, gave him every word in the book, punched him once then threw my burrito at him as he tried to get away"
"Has this man stalked you over a period of time? If so, you might be able to begin a process of getting a restraining order on him but you WILL need proof & be able to show a repeated pattern of abuse, some documentation"
(Jane Doe): WHAT? I don't even know this guy. When are you going to come down here and look for this guy? You can't tell me he's not breaking the law with sexual harrassment and things. This is no different than a school teacher trying to get sexual favors from a studtn. It's the same in principal anyways"
"No, it's not the same, For one thing he's not a teacher, you are not 15 years or his student, he did not touch you or make any attempts to physically assaautl you and none of this happened in a school or any other place. Oh yes, another difference, he didn't breat any laws"
(Jane Doe): "But it's the same principal. And just because we're not at work doesn't mean he didn't harrass me!
"Mam you've just confessed to several misdemeanor crimes over the phone and we have this on tape. It's a good thing HE didnt' call to report you for assault, battery, live obscene conduct in public and possibly something stemming from the burrito thing. We'd be able to corroborate HIS claims based on this phone call"
(Jane Doe): CLICK!
Posted by pacfootluver (Member # 9180) on :
[/qb][/QUOTE]Sexual harassment may not be the exact term for it, but it is definitely illegal to approach a woman and compliment her on something sexual. Walk up to women and say nice tits and see how long your "it isn't harassment if we're not at work!" excuse holds up.
I don't mean to keep responding, but reading a lot of this has been somewhat frustrating for me since you seem similar to those guys that end up in the news, standing by the "it is just feet" mentality to far greater lengths than one should.
Though, you believe doing a 360 turns you opposite, so i'm not sure any of this will sink in. [/QB][/QUOTE]
-----------
This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. I would like to know WHICH laws would cover this, if you can find one in some place other than Farenheit 451. You're right Ben, make a post like this and you open yourself up to a few detractors with their "I told you so" posts. You handled it perfectly, just like you did the posts.
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
quote:Originally posted by lambskin: Ben,
That was hillarious. The part where you said, "what's the matter, you don't drink coffee" had me nearly falling out of my seat
Ben, you do this as much as you and you're bound to run across a nut case. A more appropriate response on her part would have been a simple "no thank you". Fortunately, as you've pointed out, most of the women are beautiful, smart, nice, and accepting. Keep up the good work.
Hello lambskin -
You mention a more appropriate response and the happy truth is, most women who are not immediately obliging do respond with a simple "no thank you". Even those who are not interested are often VERY kind in declining - and a few even contact me later to say "You know, I thought about this and I wouldn't mind meeting for coffee". Fortunately, people like this are (from my experience) a rarity.
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
quote:Originally posted by Malory: Hey Ben this is too funny! What a crack up & I can almost hear you saying "so you don't like coffee?. It's so kewl you let this stuff fly off like water off a ducks back, that's the best way to go for sure. From what I just saw in the pictures section you're still beating the odds by a couple hundred. LOL.
~Malory
Hello Beautiful -
Thinking back to last spring, thank Heavens YOU didn't react this way when I first walked up and spoke to you about your feet!
quote:Originally posted by pacfootluver: I gotta say this is a funny story. You never know how a girl is gionog to react so I guess thats why 99% of us just stay in the background and fantasize. Thanks for being one of those rare guys who dares to be different Ben because things like this are unpleasant but we know it's all worth it in the end. And by the way I KNOW you know this but there's still no laws against spoken words regardless of what a few others might say.
Hello pacfootluver -
You have to hope for a little kindness to go along with the rejections or at least a tiny drop of civility. As was the situation here, you don't always get that and the rebuke is served up harsh and raw - but at least the burrito was cooked.
Posted by Mighty Mike (Member # 1922) on :
quote:Originally posted by Ben Del Amitri: Alright, I was really cool about this when the first two knuckleheads came into this thread, with (inane and uninformed) sexual harrassment comments. Enough is enough and I'm going to set this straight right here and now.
For your edification, Mighty Mike - and that of the others who made similar, ridiculous comments, HERE is the actual meaning of "Sexual Harrassment", the reason such laws were conceived, WHO they apply to and the intent thereof. Your attention is invited to the fact that these laws apply ONLY IN THE WORKPLACE, and ... even at that, they do not apply in all workplaces, and that these statutes can not be made to apply in private companies:
Sexual harassment is a form of sex discrimination that violates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Title VII applies to employers with 15 or more employees, including state and local governments. It also applies to employment agencies and to labor organizations, as well as to the federal government.
Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitute sexual harassment when this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance, or creates an intimidating, hostile, or offensive work environment.
Sexual harassment can occur in a variety of circumstances, including but not limited to the following:
* The victim as well as the harasser may be a woman or a man. The victim does not have to be of the opposite sex. * The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, an agent of the employer, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or a non-employee. * The victim does not have to be the person harassed but could be anyone affected by the offensive conduct. * Unlawful sexual harassment may occur without economic injury to or discharge of the victim. * The harasser's conduct must be unwelcome.
Title VII of the Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964 provides that "it shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer . . . to discriminate against any individual with respect to his compensation, terms, conditions, or privileges of employment, because of such individual's race, color, religion, sex, or national origin."
In a series of major decisions in 1998, the United States Supreme Court clarified and broadened the law. In a unanimous decision in March, 1998 the Court said: "When the workplace is permeated with discriminatory intimidation, ridicule, and insult that is sufficiently severe or pervasive to alter the conditions of the victim's employment and create an abusive working environment, Title VII is violated.
====================
SO - your statement "actually a girl can file a sexual harrassment lawsuit if you compliment her haircut" is patently false, completely wrong and absolutely without merit of any kind, whatsoever.
calm down ben
you didn't have to call me a knucklehead
it's ok though, sticks and stones and burritos may break my bones but names will never hurt me
As for sexual harrassment, I took a psychology of sexual behavior class last year and my teacher said that complimenting a girl on her haircut can be considered sexual harrassment. She might have mentioned it was only in the workplace but I can't remember.
I'll take your word for it.
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
quote:Originally posted by Mighty Mike: [QUOTE] it's ok though, sticks and stones and burritos may break my bones but names will never hurt me
That is VERY CLEVER (and funny)! Touche' Mighty Mike, thank you for your input!
Posted by feet-e-zine (Member # 1966) on :
I found the following post on a forum...cant remember where...
As I read this thread, I was reminded of it...
Ben, it is a joy to watch as you celebrate being a "man"...
I belive that woman want and expect that we men will step up to the plate an initiate conversation and make things happen...
I think it would be a very, very sad day indeed when a man could not feel free to walk up to a woman, compliment her and propose a business arrangement such as a photoshoot...
The following are some ruminations by a woman...lamenting how it is that men cannot step up and be "men"...
================================================== The first thing that popped into my head is the small talk. I know you think that is what you are supposed to do but why not say "I saw you walk by and I know this is odd but I would like the chance to get to know you better. Here is my card.. if you want to call, great. If not, have a wonderful night." Please then dont linger around her and her friends. Leave it with her and let her wonder. If she found you attractive she might just call. Actually I would...and im a hot girl. Girls love to be flattered in a quick non embarrassing way. Dont flatter with "youre so beautiful..yadda yadda" just screams desperate. Even though that sounds funny..it does to a girl. Simply flatter her by your confident action. A guy who has the balls to do that is awesome and Id be intrigued. I dont want some guy pondering over my camera when i know that isnt what he even wants to talk about..does that make sense? So id rather him just come out with it. Its more attractive to women. If you send me a pic ill tell you what girls think and if youre attractive open and honestly. Its not all about the attractiveness...as you point out. Its honestly about confidence..coming out with it ..standing tall..no BS...takes their women as they want them. I know it sounds corny..but we are still the cavemen and cavewomen who desire a MAN without pick up lines. Just get to the point. Cavemen didnt roam around the bush and idle by and say.."my nice loin cloth you have there..where can i get one". lol. He said "Me man..you gorgeous woman i want". Grrrrrrrrr.
I had a guy once stare at me at Q's in Santa Monica. My friends all noticed too. He was pretty attractive..I would go out with him. He would stare, kinda go for a smoke when I did. I left after he said "can i have a light" and then talked about my purse. I was like oh well..he didnt say it. So i went to this bar about 10 miles away. Guess who shows up about 30 minutes later? Yup. Coincidence perhaps..or just wanted to make his move. After about another half hour of this guy staring...I went up to him. I said I know youve been watching me, I do find you attractive but cut the stalker shit and here is my number lol. He took it and gave me his and admitted shyly. He laughed and we talked the next day. But honestly, he lost me when he couldnt make that move the first time.
Keep going..youll find one. Im hot and Id talk with someone who came up to me because im normal..and not prissy. We are out there! Its a numbers game.
==================================================
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Hello feet-e-zine -
That's very interesting input and some great and fascinating ruminations. I've heard similar things from a few of these girls and it's fun to try and watch these things from their side of the fence. I'm always asking Kristin, Kirsten, Liv and the others how they feel about being approached, etc. and I think many would be surprised by some of their thoughts.
Posted by Malory (Member # 9101) on :
Hey Ben that's SO sweet, those pictures are so cute! I completely forgot about them. You never let me see them before. I just downloaded both so now I've got copys. You know those were some of my favorite mules I wore that day. Still love em!
~Malory
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Hello Malory -
I love those mules also. I haven't been very good at providing copies of photos but you know, I don't even sift through half of them myself. I'll try to be better at that in the future.
Posted by DennisIsEvil (Member # 11755) on :
Sorry to breach board ettiquette by bumping an old thread but the girl chicking burritos is just too damn funny.
So let me get this straight she thinks you're weird for complimenting her feet but here she is screaming like a banshee and chucking burritos.
This one sounds like a real neurotic. All the girls Ive ever complimented on their feet were very welcoming about it though and were happy just to get noticed.
She sounds like either a neurotic or like some vapid hag who is dumb enough to actually believe her own unattainable princess fantasies.
Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Hello Dennis -
You said it (and you've stated it well)! My experiences in the realm of complimenting girls on their feet have been just exactly as you've described for yourself.
Posted by Summer (Member # 9946) on :
hey Ben thats a real strange story. bet your glad i didnt act that way when you met me! me too or else id have missed out on a lot of adventures. you did the right thing & handled it the best you could Ben.
from summer
Posted by sanlucas (Member # 3492) on :
Ben,you should talk to President Bush and let him know about the Burrito`s of mass destruction you were attacked with!!! Posted by Ben Del Amitri (Member # 2724) on :
Hello sanlucas -
Those grilled stuffed burritos pack a lot of weight and volume. I'm lucky the thing didn't take my head off.
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