I did an initial poll over a year and a half ago to see which candidates you wanted to run in the presidental election now that we will have all of our nominees in stone [McCain and Palin are still classified as presumptive until this Thursday night at the closing of the GOP convention] but given Barack Obama and John McCain, who would you rather lead the United States in a time when the American economy is rather stagnant and so much controversy surrounds the War on Terror including two U.S. wars right now in Afghanistan and Iraq. Select the candidate you feel is best suited to lead the U.S.A. for at least the next four years. Even if you are not an American, feel free to participate in this poll.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
Why don't u add a Ron Paul/Jesse Ventura fantasy option..or maybe not..I bet there's alot of independants who would vote that and take alot away from the current options.
Posted by FtLckr26 (Member # 13998) on :
This will be my first time voting and I'm voting for Obama.
Posted by Salvy_Mic (Member # 13384) on :
Obama/Biden, and I'd be going against the grain with my family (at least my dad's side), who are all very Republican. It's time for a change.
Posted by MC Nolan (Member # 20527) on :
Obama/Biden,
As Dr. Mic says it's time for change and not necessarily just for the sake of it.
MCN
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
Obama only works with a congress that is on his side, and after the past 2 years of a no-show from the 06' elections..they may be changing again...so if you really want him to win and follow through with his "promises" make sure the congressional side sees eye to eye.
Posted by Salvy_Mic (Member # 13384) on :
It's only been no-showing because they're a majority Democrat Congress being consistently stonewalled by a Republican administration. Typically, Congress is only able to get things done if they see eye to eye with the President, and that usually only happens if the President and Congress are of the same party.
Posted by 2nd. To God In Power (Member # 23391) on :
Ok, who are the 8 CLOWNS that voted for McCain?
Posted by FootLongSub Zero (Member # 19380) on :
I ain't American so I think my vote is ineligible. I just voted McCain because I don't like Obama. Interested into seeing what Obama does with the country "WHEN" he wins the ellection.
Posted by A&F_FootDude_05 (Member # 2999) on :
McCain is gaining a lot of traction since I started this poll it had originally looked like Obama in a landslide but no so much anymore.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
Let's hope there's no major wars in the next 4 1/2 months that enables W to enact the little phrase in the patriot act that says he can suspend the elections..go look it up.
Posted by Salvy_Mic (Member # 13384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Wrinklesguy: Let's hope there's no major wars in the next 4 1/2 months that enables W to enact the little phrase in the patriot act that says he can suspend the elections..go look it up.
If that happens, me and you, wrinklesguy, have a responsibility to lead the Revolution against him.
Seriously, if something like that ever happened in the U.S., there would be insurrection.
Posted by Toetapper (Member # 6473) on :
The longer explanation that I promised in another thread:
The Ancient Greeks used to vote in the negative, in other words, a vote was cast against a candidate. The one with the most votes lost. Mindful of this when I registered to vote at age 18, oh so long ago, I promised myself that I would always vote FOR a candidate. Many elections later, I now appreciate the wisdom in the old Greek approach and, once again, face having to select from among the "least-worst".
I realize that the bulk of folks here are younger than I am. I fully recall and understand the fervent desire to put someone new, vibrant, and fresh into the Oval Office. Sadly, the candidate who seems to offer that is doing nothing of the sort; instead, he is suggesting the same old hackneyed ideas attempted by the European democracies after WWII as they moved toward more Socialist policies. These are policies from which those countries are now moving away, realizing that they have been antithetical to everything which they intended to achieve.
Well, you may wish to label me a stick-in-the-mud because I seem to be opposed to "Hope and Change". I have to ask, "Hope for what?" and "Change FROM what, TO what?"
I have avoided this Political Section here as this is a place where I could go on and on and on so I will conclude as briefly as I can and hope that I will motivate the readers to give some serious thought to what I have asked.
I will have to vote for McCain...but there once were so many good choices.
If there is a next installment to this rant it will be about "The Constitution".
Posted by Hal (Member # 3484) on :
Well, one of our so called "socialist" ideas (universal health care) works pretty well over here in Europe/Germany. I can get the best medical treatment almost for free.
-Hal-
Posted by Gameon (Member # 20877) on :
I'm British and voted for Obama.
I just want to say, "I was doing this etc etc" on the day the 1st black president was voted in/Assasinated etc
Also from the coverage I hear over here in sunny scotland :S Republicans appear to be deeply influenced by christianity; I think religion is a dodgy thing to have in politics.
Posted by LeDaemon (Member # 198) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hal: Well, one of our so called "socialist" ideas (universal health care) works pretty well over here in Europe/Germany. I can get the best medical treatment almost for free.
-Hal-
Universal health care would not be a bad thing in my opinion over here. My sister is a total conservative Republican and she rants and raves about how much of a tax increase we will have if Obama is elected with all the "change" that will take place. She is totally against having the health care change. My argument to her has been that her husband is basically a slave to his job because of his health care. He was wanting to move into a new job with another company for better pay and even benefits but he had to decline due to the fact that he would have to wait 90 days before he could enroll in the new ones benefits plan which is typical. Since he has had colon cancer and thyroid cancer you can see that 90 days without coverage could be a death sentence or just put them in the poorhouse. My sister is a stay at home mom and doesn't seem to realize that if her husband were to pass away she would have no health insurance to cover her or the kids.
A friend of mine that is self employed and makes a good living can't afford to pay premiums for health insurance for her and her husband. She has basically got a basic health plan that just covers herself since she is the primary bread earner. Her husband who does freelance work from home doesn't have any kind of coverage.
Not everyone in America is offered health coverage in their jobs. Luckily where I work we offer coverage for even part time employees.
The Moore movie "Sicko" was a pretty good eye opener to what is and what could be. Folks might want to rent that one for the universal health care arguemnent.
Posted by bison4me (Member # 21530) on :
Hey LD,
Tell your sister that what ever tax cut she believe she's received under the current administration, or will receive if McCain is elected is the biggest fairytale of them all, unless of course she makes well over 250,000. Otherwise she'd stand a better chance of Brownie saving her from drowning. (Brownie or George Bush is butt of jokes down in New Orleans. My family down there says that everyone says if so and so needs help or if so and so needs this call Brownie or W.)
People work hard, damn hard just to earn enough to get by. I see them and know many. I hate how the Republican party spins this around and takes the worst kind of scenario, like only welfare mothers want health care for free. Or the only people who would benefit from universal health care are lazy folks. My best friends uncle had both his legs blown off from a tour in Desert Storm, he works a bulldozer on artificial legs and tries to get double shifts when he can. His daughter suffers from diabetes, and he can't afford health care. How could anybody deny this man and his family universal health care or look down on him if asked for it or received it?
There are folks in West Virgina, Kentucky, Indiana, and Tennessee that suffer from poverty that rivals third world countries. Some don't even have indoor plumbing. If there were any job opportunities, I'm quite sure they'd be all over it, but most of their jobs went to China, Mexico, or Canada. Ahhh, don't get me started. :-)
Posted by A&F_FootDude_05 (Member # 2999) on :
quote:Originally posted by 2nd. To God In Power: Ok, who are the 8 CLOWNS that voted for McCain?
Take a look at the poll now...we're about to become the clowns Posted by bison4me (Member # 21530) on :
Wow A&F,
That's shocking, but then again not really. Our country elected Bush twice so it doesn't surprise me. I guess some folks want to help McCain get his 8th house.
Posted by 2nd. To God In Power (Member # 23391) on :
The people that are supporters of McCain and want him in the office really do have some messed-up issues that they need to resolve and fast.
Posted by Toetapper (Member # 6473) on :
Looks as though I shook a hornets' nest. Good. I'll shake it a little more tomorrow...
Posted by Mikey P (Member # 1922) on :
quote:Originally posted by 2nd. To God In Power: The people that are supporters of McCain and want him in the office really do have some messed-up issues that they need to resolve and fast.
yeah they probably have abortion issues Posted by lambskin (Member # 1542) on :
[QUOTE] [Well, one of our so called "socialist" ideas (universal health care) works pretty well over here in Europe/Germany. I can get the best medical treatment almost for free./QUOTE]
I can not accurately comment on the universal health care in Germany, but I can on that in Canada. Having worked in a hospital in Detroit just across the border from Windsor, Canada, we used to receive transfers from this city of a 1/2 million people quite frequently because of a lack of certain services provided by this "superior" health care system. For example, a patient with a heart attack needing a catheterization (where a blockage is found and can be ballooned open) could not get this done on an emergency or even urgent basis. Instead they receive the inferior choice of a clot busting medication. Often times this would work, but if a patient didn't respond well or began to decline they got transferred, not to a Canadian hospital, but to the US. Now I'm originally from a town 1/4 the size of Windsor and yet there are 3 hosptials that perform catheterizations 24 hrs a day 7 days a week. That is just one of the many prices they pay for "free" health care.
Speaking of free.... I have relatives in Canada and guess what, they are in the lower tax bracket of 40%. Do people in this country honestly think that providing health care to 300 million people (far more people than in any European country or Canada) is free? While I agree that health care reform is needed, a socialist policy is not the answer.
That being said, I'm voting for McCain for that as well as many other issues.
Posted by bison4me (Member # 21530) on :
I believe Obama's plan does not call for Free health care, its health care that people pay into. People are willing to pay into a system they can afford.
As Ronald Reagan said, There is no such thing as a free lunch. Although Obama's health care plan may not be the best, its certainly better than not having one at all or what currently exists, which is nothing. This is one of many reasons why I'm voting for Obama.
Posted by Hal (Member # 3484) on :
I´m sorry, maybe I gave the wrong impression...over here in Germany universal health care is not free, either. You pay into a pool and the amount depends on your income. Some people (for example college students) pay as little as 50 Euros a month, other people with a high income may pay as much as 500 Euros a month.
What I meant with "almost free" is the treatment you recieve in the end (by a doctor or a hospital)...you will not recieve a medical bill afterwards...it will be covered by my insurance. That is a good thing and people will not be driven into the poorhouse after an operation.
@ Lambskin: Interesting story...I have not heard anything similar in Germany.
-Hal-
Posted by bison4me (Member # 21530) on :
Hey Hal, that's exactly the plan Obama and to a certain extent Clinton and Edwards wanted. The only major difference between Clinton's and Obama's plan was that with Clinton she wanted it mandatory that families pay into the health care system. But all three candidates based the amount on a family's income.
Posted by Hal (Member # 3484) on :
quote:Originally posted by bison4me: Hey Hal, that's exactly the plan Obama and to a certain extent Clinton and Edwards wanted. The only major difference between Clinton's and Obama's plan was that with Clinton she wanted it mandatory that families pay into the health care system. But all three candidates based the amount on a family's income.
Well, sounds like a good thing to me. It seems a little weird that the USA doesn`t have universal health care, considering that you are the most progressive country in the world. I don`t see the negative sides of universal health care...it may not be 100% perfect but for a working (social) society it is the best alternative to private health care.
-Hal-
[ September 03, 2008, 09:56 AM: Message edited by: Hal ]
Posted by Salvy_Mic (Member # 13384) on :
The reason we don't have universal health care in this country is because the medical insurance companies are such a powerful lobby and do all they can to block any sort of measure. Universal health care in an affordable package threatens the HMO's business and because this country as of late favors the rich over every one else, well, you know what's going to happen.
Nothing should ever be free in this country, but there's no reason why we shouldn't have reasonably affordable health care that is accessible to any American.
I swear, some of these Republican hucksters (O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Hannity, Coulter, et. al) create more spin than a washing machine. But they scream and whine loudest, so theirs is the voice that ends up getting heard. They'll have you believe anything, so long as they believe it hurts anyone who's not extreme right wingers like themselves. Divisive politics and propaganda are ruining this country.
Posted by Foot Toons (Member # 1962) on :
I have read enough of these responses and thought I would throw in my two cents worth. I am in quite the unique situation. I once worked for a large animation studio. Our particular studio was shut down and the production we once did was sent to countries like India and Korea. Why? Because those places have workers who will do the job for a fraction of the cost AND a fraction of the quality. My wife and I both work from home now. We are self employed which means we have to work twice as hard as the normal worker. "So why don't you just get a job?". We live in an area where there are no jobs in my industry and to just "get a job" would mean making far less money than I can make doing freelance work. Its that or compete with local high school kids for low paying jobs at McDonald's or Burger King. We also have a 6 year old son. With our busy work schedule we HAVE to spend SOME time with our child or he will end up in "the wrong crowd". What I don't understand is how do we have "the most powerful nation on Earth" and hard working people who don't have babies spread out all over the place or do not do drugs or are not spending time in jail, how do we NOT have some kind of health care system for honest, hard working people? How is it we can bomb the shit out of any country on the planet but there are American veterans living on the fucking street? How is it we are TRILLIONS of dollars in debt but the nation we are "defending" is making a killing over oil? How is it we have the technology to photograph a fly's ass from space but we can't catch an anorexic terrorist hiding in a cave in the desert? How is it we have the best medical technology in our hospitals and yet American veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan with limbs missing are placed in hospitals lacking proper equipment? I'm a veteran who served in Desert Storm. I did my part and let me tell you IT SUCKS over there. You have NO idea unless you have been there. Republican, Democrat, McCain, Obama, whatever. I want whomever our next president is to roll up their sleeves, stop fucking around and fix this mess this country is in. America is too great a country to be doing this badly! I'm not going to say whether I'm a Republican or a Democrat or an Independent. Politics these days are so divisive in this country it makes me SICK. When I hear people say they don't want to vote for Obama because he's black or McCain because he's old it pisses me off! People who think like this are bigoted IDIOTS I don't care what color your skin is! Bigoted dumbasses come in ALL COLORS! Like I said, whoever gets elected, why not work FOR THE PEOPLE FOR A CHANGE!!
[ September 03, 2008, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: Foot Toons ]
Posted by ozkar (Member # 13264) on :
This two party system is dead. It has clearly failed us. Obama claims he will revamp the system, but you know what, I don't believe him. Not that I'm not going to vote for him, I'm sick of the amazing pile of bullshit we're mired in now and even if there's a 1% chance he'll at least bring a new shade of bullshit to the table, it's better than nothing.
It comes down to dumb little details really. In an age where 100% of the economy, intelligence gathering, and military tactics is completely computer dependent, it helps to have a guy who has a conception of what exactly that machine is capable of. In a world that is becoming increasing complex due to this mass exchange of information, you can't fix everything with a bombing raid anymore. When you kill your enemies their ideas don't die with them. They continue to hang out on various web-servers all over the world forever. We actually have to deal with conflicts with these other countries now. You can't just bomb them all away and say "gee, no one's shooting at me now, it is now a time of Peace!" China wants to industrialize? Good, lets sell them the tooling, machines, and technology! Russia wants control of the oil pipeline in Georgia? Good, let them increase the demand for oil even more so when we want to sell the world alternative energy technology it will be more appealing (hypothetically speaking of course). We have more resources and research capability in this country than any other in the world. We should be developing and EXPORTING this stuff. I've not talked to a single person of any political persuasion that doesn't think that this is a good idea.
Now onto the Palin rant:
Palin, I used to follow her stories in the paper simply because she was so outrageous. McCain must think we're as simple as he is picking her.
Rant:
He wanted to slam Obama on experience. Now every time he does it can be pointed out that he's putting a young Alaskan governor one step away from the presidency. It draws undue attention to his age as he's knocking on deaths door...
He wanted to get the Hillary supporters that won't be voting for Obama, and let me tell you, that narrow cross section of the population just LOVES anti-choice, beauty pageant participating, baby factories...
Pork barrel spending? Should have checked the books on that one too, she ran for governor promising to bring home the bacon and she did. Executive favoritism? Oops. Censorship? Talk to that librarian that was almost wrongfully fired...
Then there's the good old empty GOP standbys, Patriotism and family values. You know she's only recently republican. She was part of an Alaskan separatist party. They want to secede from the union, and their mission statement involves infiltrating both major parties to make it happen. .. So now he won't even be able to bring THAT up. He can't talk about Family values, because as we all know it's not fair to bring candidate's families into it, especially their children... 5 kids including an infant with special needs, and a grandchild on the way. Her practical choices are either Neglect her family or not be VP.
This is a side/rant, but if life begins at conception, then how is birth control evil, as it occurs prior to conception? By the touted definition, no life is being destroyed?
Meanwhile the greatest threat to this nation, contrary to all the BS we hear, is being forced to pay other countries for all the new technology that they're developing and we're not. (flat NSF funding for years now....). Brain drain. Rather then sending all our cash over to other countries for a consumable (oil) we should be selling the rest of the world state of the art energy technologies. Where are all the Nationalists at? ::nudge:: ::nudge:: Are you going to let Spain sell solar technology they've developed based on our ideas back to us? Lets get kids excited about science! It's the patriotic thing to do! Oops, Palin's a creationist and wants to drill alaska...
As she robs mccain of anything to talk about (without drawing attention to obvious contradictions), my guess is that she'll step down from the potential VP position 'heroically' for the sake of her family and Alaska, which she'll say both need her attention right now.
[ September 03, 2008, 07:35 PM: Message edited by: ozkar ]
Posted by A&F_FootDude_05 (Member # 2999) on :
McCain is perfoming much better on this poll than he was in my poll from earlier in the year before we were down to our final two out of 291 votes casted in that poll only ELEVEN voted for McCain! Feel free to take a look at it, it is lower on this page of topics.
Posted by LeDaemon (Member # 198) on :
Another argument about the universal health care is if it is such a bad idea then I suppose allowing every American to have an education in a public school is kind of the same thing. Everyone's tax dollars go to that rich or poor. Those that can afford more pay the extra to send their kids to a special private school or for higher education in college do that already. Every child has an opportunity for an education. Not that everyone is actually going to apply their asses toward it... I think every child should have the same opportunity for health care to lead a healthy life. Not every working stiff in America has affordable medical insurance plans with decent coverage offered through their jobs. I'm just lucky that all my life I've worked for companies that took care of their employees with it.
I ain't saying something like this has the possibility of happening just because of someone new taking office overnight. This would take at least a decade or more to get working would be my guess.
My head is kind of spinning from that martini... I'll shut up for now.
Posted by ozkar (Member # 13264) on :
quote:Originally posted by LeDaemon: Another argument about the universal health care is if it is such a bad idea then I suppose allowing every American to have an education in a public school is kind of the same thing. Everyone's tax dollars go to that rich or poor. Those that can afford more pay the extra to send their kids to a special private school or for higher education in college do that already. Every child has an opportunity for an education. Not that everyone is actually going to apply their asses toward it... I think every child should have the same opportunity for health care to lead a healthy life. Not every working stiff in America has affordable medical insurance plans with decent coverage offered through their jobs. I'm just lucky that all my life I've worked for companies that took care of their employees with it.
I ain't saying something like this has the possibility of happening just because of someone new taking office overnight. This would take at least a decade or more to get working would be my guess.
My head is kind of spinning from that martini... I'll shut up for now.
That's another thing I don't quite understand... typically republicans are against universal health care plans, but the way it works now everyone has to pay exponentially higher fees at hospital to cover emergency room visits and expensive treatments for problems that could have been avoided all together by simple preventative maintenance. You'd think if you wanted to pay out less of your own money to the Fed you'd be for universal health care. People waiting until their problems get bad enough to get free emergency room treatment bankrupts some hospitals.
Posted by A&F_FootDude_05 (Member # 2999) on :
A friend of mine....who is very conservative notes that universal health care is low-quality health care in that it would take a long time for you to see a doctor in the event you were ill.
Posted by Hal (Member # 3484) on :
quote:Originally posted by A&F_FootDude_05: A friend of mine....who is very conservative notes that universal health care is low-quality health care in that it would take a long time for you to see a doctor in the event you were ill.
I can only again say this from my own experience here in Germany...I have never had to wait very long to see a doctor. I think the longest ever were 2 hours in a waiting room, but that was an exception....usually it`s around 20-30 minutes. If you want a long term appointment you can usually get an one in the next days or 1-2 weeks. If you are feeling ill (say you have very bad toothache or a bad cold) you can always get an appointment at once at every doctor. This may be different in other countries with universal health care, not sure.
-Hal-
[ September 04, 2008, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: Hal ]
Posted by LeDaemon (Member # 198) on :
quote:Originally posted by A&F_FootDude_05: A friend of mine....who is very conservative notes that universal health care is low-quality health care in that it would take a long time for you to see a doctor in the event you were ill.
Funny you mention that. A few years back I called my doctor needing an appointment because I was experiencing numbness in my arm and slight chest pains. They booked me as quick as they could for a physical which was for a few days later. Luckily it was nothing and was just work related stress causing it at the time.
And as far as that great health coverage goes with your private insurance care providers we got the shaft a few years back. My wife was experiencing excruciating pain in her side and thought she was going to die! My mom took her to the emergency room at the hospital and I hurried as fast as I could from work. Tests proved negative for any kind of life threatening illnesses, but the pain was traced back to deep tissue bruising that she must have had at work a few days earlier when she hurt herself while carrying something. The pain just didn't hit until later!
Anyway our great insurance provider at the time discovered that it was work related and refused to pay bill leaving us with the costs of the emergency room visit 100%! Since it happened days earlier at work and they reported the accident that no medical attention was needed at the time there was no worker's compensation reimbursement.
Posted by LeDaemon (Member # 198) on :
quote:Originally posted by Hal: [QUOTE]Originally posted by A&F_FootDude_05: [qb] If you want a long term appointment you can usually get an one in the next days or 1-2 weeks.
-Hal-
Nice. When I call to make an appointment with my doctor just for a routine physical I have to schedule it usually up to 3 months out. However, in an emergency situation you can get in the same day most of the time.
Posted by bison4me (Member # 21530) on :
quote:Originally posted by footgirl0226:
quote:Originally posted by Hal:
quote:Originally posted by bison4me: Hey Hal, that's exactly the plan Obama and to a certain extent Clinton and Edwards wanted. The only major difference between Clinton's and Obama's plan was that with Clinton she wanted it mandatory that families pay into the health care system. But all three candidates based the amount on a family's income.
Well, sounds like a good thing to me. It seems a little weird that the USA doesn`t have universal health care, considering that you are the most progressive country in the world. I don`t see the negative sides of universal health care...it may not be 100% perfect but for a working (social) society it is the best alternative to private health care.
-Hal-
Hal- it would cut our family income in half... lol Basically all healthcare workers/doctors would get paid crappier than they already are. Anyone in the field from direct patient care providers to management and office staff.
Healthcare workers would get paid low, and therefore there would be no incentive for them to work harder, more efficient, or even offer services that are so readily available at this point. Not to mention there would be waiting lists for many services that people can get scheduled in 3 days here. I have heard of places that to get a basic lap. cholecystectomy takes 6 months or more, when here in the US you walk into the ER, have a flair up of a stone, and get the surgery that day. To someone in pain, waiting isnt a great option.
And LD- if its taking you 3months to get in with your primary- get a new one. I live in an area of millions of people and I can call and get in that afternoon. No one should wait like that! lol
My father-in-law is a OB/GYN, he's down with universal health care, he hates it when the hospital turns away folks with no insurance. He likes the idea of universal health care because people will go to clinics first before going to hospitals. People use hospitals now like clinics and the waits are unbearable.
Posted by Hal (Member # 3484) on :
quote: My father-in-law is a OB/GYN, he's down with universal health care, he hates it when the hospital turns away folks with no insurance. He likes the idea of universal health care because people will go to clinics first before going to hospitals. People use hospitals now like clinics and the waits are unbearable.
He doesn`t seem to be the only one...according to a survey most doctors in the USA favour a universal health care plan.
According to that article the survey is 6 years old and was done in the state of Indiana with only 2000 doctors. I wonder what type of results it would have based throughout the nation with a larger pool of doctors polled.
And footgirl, the 3 month wait was for a physical not an emergency visit. I kind of doubt you own physician would be able to book you the same afternoon if you were just going in for a checkup too. Plus, I've been going to the same doctor since I was a teenager so just changing physician wasn't a necessity.
The waits at hospitals that take patients without medical insurance coverage are unbelievable. One young lady that used to work for me didn't have coverage and after a car accident she went to that hospital. She was in the emergency room for several hours before leaving because she wouldn't get waited on. (In that type of hospital all the stabbing victims get picked first) She went back a few days later and waited again to discover that she had a concussion when the doctor finally saw her.
I can't imagine being in an emergency situation where ambulance drivers are asking you which hospital they should take you to because of insurance coverage and then they have to drive you out of the way to one of those if you ain't covered.
This topic has really drifted... funny how that happened.
Posted by Hal (Member # 3484) on :
quote: This topic has really drifted... funny how that happened.
It happened at the top of page 2 when I mentioned the magic word "universal health care"...seems like everyone has an opinion on that topic
-Hal-
Posted by A&F_FootDude_05 (Member # 2999) on :
Folks, we are in a dead tie
Posted by Mikey P (Member # 1922) on :
i heard many guys say they wouldn't vote for hilary because they didn't think a woman could be a good leader
i wonder if they feel that way about mccain/palin now
Posted by Mikey P (Member # 1922) on :
quote:Originally posted by footgirl0226:
quote:Originally posted by Mikey P: i heard many guys say they wouldn't vote for hilary because they didn't think a woman could be a good leader
i wonder if they feel that way about mccain/palin now
Well I must just be old school cause I think she needs to be home more with all her children. If her kids were grown, different story. Being a VP would require too many hrs and days away from her kids who clearly need some parenting.
I think a woman can lead anything, but if she chooses to have children, lead them first... I know, I know, I will get flack for this statement. But whatever.
in all honesty i never thought hilary or any woman would be a good president, i just wanted bill back in the white house Posted by bison4me (Member # 21530) on :
quote:Originally posted by footgirl0226:
quote:Originally posted by LeDaemon: According to that article the survey is 6 years old and was done in the state of Indiana with only 2000 doctors. I wonder what type of results it would have based throughout the nation with a larger pool of doctors polled.
And footgirl, the 3 month wait was for a physical not an emergency visit. I kind of doubt you own physician would be able to book you the same afternoon if you were just going in for a checkup too. Plus, I've been going to the same doctor since I was a teenager so just changing physician wasn't a necessity.
The waits at hospitals that take patients without medical insurance coverage are unbelievable. One young lady that used to work for me didn't have coverage and after a car accident she went to that hospital. She was in the emergency room for several hours before leaving because she wouldn't get waited on. (In that type of hospital all the stabbing victims get picked first) She went back a few days later and waited again to discover that she had a concussion when the doctor finally saw her.
I can't imagine being in an emergency situation where ambulance drivers are asking you which hospital they should take you to because of insurance coverage and then they have to drive you out of the way to one of those if you ain't covered.
This topic has really drifted... funny how that happened.
I have never heard of this. In fact, here they have to take you to the nearest hospital that can best suit your problem. I have never heard of healthcare workers and EMT's asking about insurance. I dont even think thats legal.
And LD - I always drift lol ....
And I stand corrected on the same day dr appt. I didnt read correctly when it was a physical. Yeah those take awhile. Wanna know why though? Its really boring but I will tell you. CAUSE i do drift every second lol
For the most part- everyones visits are sectioned off in segments and the dr office can only charge one segment at a time depending on the severity. So basically, most visits are a certain cost or in a code. Physicals get charges like 4x the regular block - but then they are required to block off more time in the books for the visits as well. See- completely boring dear... but...
Actually its common practice here in Washington, D.C. for the EMTs to take patients to certain hospitals based on wither or not they have health insurance or not. In D.C. they recently closed the city run hospital so health care is a huge issue. Especially with the amount of elders we have living in the city.
My father-in-law who's the OB/GYN practices in St. Louis and that's a common practice out there as well. I know in New York its also a big issue. Has anyone seen the video of that woman who died in the waiting room in the E.R.? People just walked over her, even some of the nurses, then about an hour or so, they realized she was dead. woman dies on N.Y. ER floor WARNING: The image is graphic.
So Hal even though it may have drifted off topic, its a HUGE topic of discussion in this country. But I think very relevant to this discussion.
Posted by lambskin (Member # 1542) on :
quote: Hal- it would cut our family income in half... lol Basically all healthcare workers/doctors would get paid crappier than they already are. Anyone in the field from direct patient care providers to management and office staff.
Healthcare workers would get paid low, and therefore there would be no incentive for them to work harder, more efficient, or even offer services that are so readily available at this point. Not to mention there would be waiting lists for many services that people can get scheduled in 3 days here. I have heard of places that to get a basic lap. cholecystectomy takes 6 months or more, when here in the US you walk into the ER, have a flair up of a stone, and get the surgery that day. To someone in pain, waiting isnt a great option.
And LD- if its taking you 3months to get in with your primary- get a new one. I live in an area of millions of people and I can call and get in that afternoon. No one should wait like that! lol
That is absolutely true regarding universal healthcare and elective or even urgent proceedures. Again, working in a hospital 30 minutes from the Canadian border we had people who would pay out of pocket to come to the US to get something done that would otherwise take months in Canada. Another very true is example is that one of my wife's relatives is currently waiting 2 months to have his bladder removed for bladder cancer. Seems that you may want that done a little quicker.
Regarding the notion that if we had universal health care people would all just go to their doctors, that is a load of crap. In Illinois all kids have insurance (at least state aid) and yet many are taken to walk-in clinics or ERs for mundane, non-emergent conditions because parents don't want to deal with the responsibility of an appointment or pay the 2-4 dollar co-pay to see their doctors. This, by the way, is why people wait so long in waiting rooms at emergnecy departments.
Finally, if we want to provide cost effective healthcare to 300 million Americans (plus some illegal immigrants) then we need one more thing that Obama and his liberal buddies refuse to do...and that is tort reform. You can not expect doctors and health care facilities to provide affordible health care when every patient who is just slightly unhappy with anything threatens to sue. I'm not saying to do away with lawsuits because they are necessary in cases of gross negligence, but we need to do away with frivilous suits and lottery sized awards. The problem is that trial lawyer associations have been padding the wallets of liberal for years to prevent legislation controlling (not eliminating) lawsuits. You talk about a lobby group with a lot of money as well as knowledge of politics and law....
The fact is that something needs to be done with healthcare. I just don't think that government funded, controlled healthcare for a country of 300 million people (plus a number of illegal immigrants) is feasible at this time.
Posted by sofatater (Member # 4209) on :
Getting back to the original topic: I think people are beginning to see MC Cain's choice of running mate for what she really is- a replacement for the "Hillary Vote". The people of this country are not stupid. McCain passed up a lot of more experienced candidates for one that would serve two purposes. 1) get the "Hillary vote". 2) Her lack of experience will make it easy for his party to manipulate her in Washington. I agree with footgirl, she should go home and devote her life to her children.
Posted by sofatater (Member # 4209) on :
I personally have no problem with any man or woman of any race or religion running for president. I just think that Sarah Palin is being "used" to try to fulfill someone else's agenda.
Posted by Girlgotsole (Member # 14405) on :
Standing behind abstract words like "change" and "hope" is a very easy thing to do, but the actual application of that act, and the competency behind it is an entirely different matter.
With that being said, Obama says a lot of things that would be great. Who wouldn't want free healthcare, college, everything else? But, what's going to pay for that?
My step father is a doctor. If Obama goes into power, he is taxed and loses half of his pay, also due to socialist healthcare. My step father is not the owner a fortune 500 company, he goes to work like everyone else five days a week.
With that said, I'm sticking with McCain. He does not backdown. I think this shows in the fact he was tortured for two years until he could no longer raise his arms above his head and his hair turned white.
Obama wishes to speak to our enemies without preconditions. That's what Jimmy Carter did, and it failed miserably (after winning the Nobel Peace Prize, of course).
Anyway, McCain for me.
- Girlgotsole
Posted by Lord (Member # 2465) on :
Am I allowed to just vote or do I have to get involved in this nightmare? I will if i have too.
McCain/Palin a politician is a politician atleast if McCain wins theres a chance we will have our first woman president.
Posted by LeDaemon (Member # 198) on :
Lord - Damn, you disappeared from this board like four years ago. Welcome back!
Posted by bison4me (Member # 21530) on :
quote:Originally posted by sofatater: I personally have no problem with any man or woman of any race or religion running for president. I just think that Sarah Palin is being "used" to try to fulfill someone else's agenda.
How could anyone attempt to pick Sarah Palin to attract disgruntled Hillary voters? Palin couldn't fill Clinton's shoes in 50 years and if McCain wins to know that she's only a heartbeat away from running the country scares the crap out of me.
I mean everyone knows George W. Bush is a moron and imbecile, but he surrounded himself with some some knowledgeable people (I stress SOME), wither you agree with their polices or not.
This woman likens looking out her window and seeing Russia, gives her Foreign Affairs credentials. Given the fact that she lives in Juneau and the geography, she probably sees British Columbia.
Posted by Mona (Member # 8351) on :
I am voting democrat(and did so in the poll)
Posted by The_FJCruiser (Member # 6007) on :
I think one of the major issues is that we don't really know enough about Obama. He has no real experience, he has ties to a domestic terrorist, and if you listen to his speaches he doesn't really say anything. I get the impression that he just says what people want to hear, whats popular. I think he's saying some great things but I'm afraid of him. He's too unproven. As far as things staying the same in Washington, no way. I don't think it really matters who wins the election the bottom line is things will change. I think Obama is in something he doesn't really understand. He's talked about all the advisors he's going to have. He needs them. I don't see that he has enough working knowledge of International politics/ economics, foreign policy, military matters and the overall judicial process in this country to run the show as President. I just don't feel like he can be trusted.
Posted by LeDaemon (Member # 198) on :
And George W. had all that experience and knowledge of international politics, economics, foreign policy, military matters, and the overall judicial process in this country when he took the office?
Posted by Elvzz (Member # 14178) on :
The times make the president so we won't know until 4 + years from now. The market wants Obama - if anyone wants to retire one friggin' day. I guess I'll be 80 shooting long toes to supplement my SS and RMD.
And for the record, and 2 wrongs don't make a right, but the Dems (Sen Dodd, the finance chair @ the time and Barnie Frank) turned the other cheek when the former Sec of the Treasury called Bullshit on "affordable housing" eg sub prime and easy credit in 2003 and 2004. And wanted to step up an oversight committee over the GSEs. He was crucified for such questioning of Freddy and Fannie and look at them now.
To quote Howard Jones - "No one ever is to blame"
Posted by bison4me (Member # 21530) on :
In watching the debate this past Wed. I saw how out of touch McCain is with the country. Obama was poised had bullet point precise answers to taxes, education, social security, and foreign policy. Then the week when the stock market turned into a yo-yo, McCain tells us not to worry one day, then the next its hold to your ass. WTF?
This guilt by association ploy that McCain and Palin is trying to push is complete bullshit. One of the questions I have that the press never seems to press McCain on is why he voted as recently as 1990, against making MLK a recognized holiday in his state. And now as of today he said he was wrong for voting that way. Ok fine, what has changed between 1990 and now that caused the about face? Other than the fact he's running for President.
Also, why doesn't the Obama camp trounce Palin and her husband on wanting to be separatist for Alaska to separate from the union? How Anti-American is that?
Posted by A&F_FootDude_05 (Member # 2999) on :
quote:Originally posted by The_FJCruiser: I think one of the major issues is that we don't really know enough about Obama. He has no real experience, he has ties to a domestic terrorist, and if you listen to his speaches he doesn't really say anything. I get the impression that he just says what people want to hear, whats popular. I think he's saying some great things but I'm afraid of him. He's too unproven. As far as things staying the same in Washington, no way. I don't think it really matters who wins the election the bottom line is things will change. I think Obama is in something he doesn't really understand. He's talked about all the advisors he's going to have. He needs them. I don't see that he has enough working knowledge of International politics/ economics, foreign policy, military matters and the overall judicial process in this country to run the show as President. I just don't feel like he can be trusted.
Experience doesn't necessarily matter as with Bill Clinton he focused his campaign in 1993 around change, and he came out with a proven track record that went from a recessive economy to one of the absolute best in any point in American history, but there is a difference between Obama and Clinton's campaign - Clinton emphasized some of his highlights as governor of Arkansas and proven statistics of improvment within his state. I believe Obama should start emphasizing what he has done as an Illinois senator.
Posted by Second Timer (Member # 21660) on :
"And George W. had all that experience and knowledge of international politics, economics, foreign policy, military matters, and the overall judicial process in this country when he took the office?"
Well, his FATHER was Vice-President for 8 years and President for 4 years. Don't ya think Dad shared some things with his son over that 12 year span? Also, GW was Governor of the state of Texas. Isn't this all about as close as you can get to experience without actually being elected?
Posted by Salvy_Mic (Member # 13384) on :
quote:Originally posted by Second Timer: Well, his FATHER was Vice-President for 8 years and President for 4 years. Don't ya think Dad shared some things with his son over that 12 year span? Also, GW was Governor of the state of Texas. Isn't this all about as close as you can get to experience without actually being elected?
So does George W. Bush apparently.
Posted by Panic (Member # 21074) on :
McCain pisses me off....oh scare tactics...silliness
Posted by A&F_FootDude_05 (Member # 2999) on :
Everyone hurry and vote if you have not already - only four days remain!
Posted by A&F_FootDude_05 (Member # 2999) on :
Obama wins this poll 109-68, or 62% to 38%
Posted by Keyfeet (Member # 27313) on :
well it looks like ff's chose barack obama 62 to 38% for mcCain
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