I dont think anyone is saying that bush was not a good man he was just not a good president there is a complete difference there
Posted by Second Timer (Member # 21660) on :
Are you sure about that? I think the hatred for Bush as a man/president is deeper than I've ever seen for anyone in my life, including Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden.
Posted by dirty foot man (Member # 9086) on :
There is no way that bush is hated more than bin laden or bin laden expecially bin laden in my opinion and im sure many others bush was a horrible president but he is a good man there is no way you can say he was not a good man what did he do to make him a bad person
Posted by bluesman4123 (Member # 23214) on :
Dirty Foot Man wrote:"There is no way that bush is hated more than bin laden or bin laden expecially bin laden in my opinion and im sure many others bush was a horrible president but he is a good man there is no way you can say he was not a good man what did he do to make him a bad person."
I can't agree with you on anything that you said. Bush is hated by the Arabs as much as bin Laden is hated by us. Bush started a senseless war over a bunch of false information. And I cannot call Bush a "good" man, he's responsible for over 4,000 American deaths and untold numbers of soldiers who are maimed for life. I saw Bush handing out medals to families of our heroes and he was having trouble looking sad, he was faking his sadness as sure as a hobby horse has a wooden dick!!!!! And Dick Cheney is even worse, because he, not Bush, was really running, or should I say ruining this country. If you want to see a compassionate person, look at our new leader. I think he will mend a lot of fences with the people in the Middle East, especially Iran. But I also think he will be strong enough not to take any crap from them. No wonder the Iranians hate us so much, we backed the Shah to the hilt before they took their country back from him. Well, it all goes back to the old saying, "It's all about the oil!!!!"
Posted by jono86 (Member # 9142) on :
the man might not have been a good presidents, but he certainly made me laugh.
even though you (USA) are less safe than you were prior to his presidency.
Posted by EETTEE (Member # 33954) on :
bush was rated the 6th worst president ever
Posted by Elvzz (Member # 14178) on :
Brolin was a better president than GW. - although the Dem senators are to blame for Fannie and Freddie - they didn't want to mess with affordable housing - well we still have it, it is just a another's expense.
Posted by A&F_FootDude_05 (Member # 2999) on :
Good man
bad president
glad his time is done.
Posted by AceCorr (Member # 37554) on :
If Bush was rated 6th worst president ever. Who were the 5 worse than him? Nixon has to be one of them.
Posted by Keyfeet (Member # 27313) on :
there is no way that bush can be, in any way compared to bin laden. bin laden is on the same level as the devil himself.
Posted by A&F_FootDude_05 (Member # 2999) on :
^ Absolutely. Same thing with Obama being compared to Hitler.
Posted by DeTrOiT (Member # 37598) on :
So is,Bush......AND OBAMA...They are Damned,near SATAN. Himself...
quote:Originally posted by Keyfeet: there is no way that bush can be, in any way compared to bin laden. bin laden is on the same level as the devil himself.
Posted by Flip flop fan (Member # 9565) on :
George W Bush was sworn in on the Masonic bible.
He's a freemason, so in my opinion, in no way is he a good man.
Posted by Spruce314 (Member # 35412) on :
Every day he is looking like a great man and a not so bad president.
Posted by Patrick (Member # 1169) on :
I like how we all talk about what made these guys great/bad people. On one hand you can say Bush was horrible for starting a senseless war with Iraq. On the other hand, you can ask how anyone could let someone like Sadam stay in power with the things he did to his own people. Either way you are in a no win situation. If he stays out of their business he's either turning a blind eye, or going in to finish off daddy's war and get oil. Lose/lose.
On top of all this, these people know a whole lot more than we'll ever know or the media does. I'm actually stunned there wasn't weapons planted just to say we found them. Don't think we haven't done shit like that in the past.
Could keep going, I'm sure, but I'd rather not because this topic never ends and just starts flame wars.
Patrick
Posted by tenyeareclipse (Member # 39340) on :
BUSH ?? My god, Can be described as the Worst THING on earth. I dont think i can call him Human. Sorry Guys
Posted by ucflyeah (Member # 32674) on :
really? you can't call him human? are you serious?
i assume you're an obama fan then? how's he doing so far for ya?
he just scheduled his 2nd vacation since the bp oil spill.
what a visionary leader...
NOT
Posted by DeTrOiT (Member # 37598) on :
Just because you think Bush was bad doesn't mean that you think Obama is going to be good...It reminds me of people who didnt like Megadeath because they liked Metallica, Limp Biscuit because they liked Slipknot or Biggie because they liked 2Pac?..Actually Bush and Obama are great for their cause...Bush. stripped you of all of your rights and Obama will make sure that the U.S. goes bankrupt...They are doing great!
Posted by GQguy (Member # 16534) on :
Leadership is no easy task. SO many people love to sit back complain and point fingers while lacking the ambition to lead themselves. These gentlemen that run the country didn't put themselves there. The American people voted them in. We are the one's responsible for what these men do. Don't forget the two other branches of government either.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
Back on planet earth...oh wait..we don't want to go there do we? lol
Posted by coqui78 (Member # 9702) on :
quote:Originally posted by ucflyeah: really? you can't call him human? are you serious?
i assume you're an obama fan then? how's he doing so far for ya?
he just scheduled his 2nd vacation since the bp oil spill.
what a visionary leader...
NOT
Yeah its horrible how all those tens of thousands of people are dying because of Obamas vacation. I mean why would the guy even want a vacation after pulling the country from the brink of financial disaster, passing health care and wall street regulation and basically having one of the most successful presidencies of the last hundred years while having to drag republicans kicking and screaming that we should keep doing the exact same things that ruined the fucking country while they were in charge? He should be right there in the gulf fucking swimming like aquaman and plugging the leak with his huge black cock right? Bush was not only a bad president but a horrible human being, not only is he responsible for hundreds of thousands of pointless deaths he also did his best to destroy everything America is supposed to stand for.
Posted by briar (Member # 22228) on :
lol @ the democrats pulled the economy back from the brink.
Gee i don't think concepts like free market economic cycles had anything to do with it? No it was the dems transferance of wealth policies righttttttt.
And why do you think the housing bubble/crisis occurred, because of GWB right? Or maybe because of actual causes like the community reinvestment act, fannie/freddie, etc.
Quit spewing leftist media talking points.
Posted by ozkar (Member # 13264) on :
Democracy, i.e. collective decision making is the concept that a group of individuals can combined make better decisions than single pundits. Collective decision making however is only effective when the decision makers (voters) arrive at independent conclusions about the issues while isolated from other opinions, and then vote. The mathematics of this is that wrongness is like zero mean noise which averages out in the voting process. When pundits begin tainting the idea pool, effectively recruiting people to adopt their viewpoints through tried and true social and psychological ploys they are essentially shifting the average away from zero by creating lots of copies of their wrong notions.
All of the griping here is some repetition of someone's talking points, some pundit, conservative or liberal. By even exposing yourself to any of them you are undermining the very mathematics of why democracy works. Pundits aren't information sources, pundits don't educate. They are biased and they employ really obvious social tricks to make you trust, believe, and vote like them.
For democracy to work you need to form your own opinions based on facts. You should get the facts from an unbiased source. If someone is presenting information and fully or partially interpreting it for you they are manipulating you. They also are assuming you can't make your own ideas and they are doing you and society a service, which is wrong and arrogant. People flock to opinion makers because they have sold you the idea that you need to have a well formed opinion about every issue. If you don't know the details of an issue it is perfectly fine and even better in a democracy to just not have an opinion.
Collective decision making compensates for everyone having different areas of expertise and knowledge through the voting process, but only if people abstain from forming opinions about issues they don't intimately understand.
Posted by GQguy (Member # 16534) on :
4413 American service members dead in Iraq. For what good? Freakin bullshit. What a stupid debate. If you were one of those 4413 or were related to one of those 4413 the answer would be easy.
Posted by coqui78 (Member # 9702) on :
quote:Originally posted by GQguy: 4413 American service members dead in Iraq. For what good? Freakin bullshit. What a stupid debate. If you were one of those 4413 or were related to one of those 4413 the answer would be easy.
Let's not forget the hundreds of thousands of iraqis killed.
Posted by Spruce314 (Member # 35412) on :
I am frankly surprised this thread is still open well after 2 years since Bush left office. I guess the current administration's excuse that all the world's problems are Bush's fault are true!
Okay, my humble right wing opinion is that Bush did what he thought was right and best for the country.
Rewind to 2006. Around 6% unemployment, oil less than $50 per barrel and the economy was plugging along. Pelosi and the dems take control of the house and senate. By 2008 we are spiraling into the mess we may be coming out of now. 52% of voters are charmed by a "change god" over a war hero and here we are today. Deficit tripled, dead end war in Afghanistan, health care and other social programs that most people don't want crammed down our throats.
Bush made mistakes. I do every day. People died because of them. That comes with the office. Odds are many of 4413 dead in Iraq's families are proud of what their relatives did and stood up for.
BTW, how many Iraqis and Iranians were killed by Saddam? If he had been left in power how many more would have been killed?
Posted by ucflyeah (Member # 32674) on :
Iraq is now a democracy with it's citizens voting on issues and having a say in how their country is run. They also have more electricity, water and schools than ever before. Is that bad? If you ask me rescuing people from a monstrous dictator is the ultimate humanitarian act.
Don't forget: Saddam Hussein was throwing people off of buildings with their hands tied behind their backs. He was storming homes of regular citizens and cutting their hands off in front of their entire families. You morons who say it was a senseless war will be but a mere blurb in the history books of tomorrow.
Posted by coqui78 (Member # 9702) on :
quote:Originally posted by ucflyeah: Iraq is now a democracy with it's citizens voting on issues and having a say in how their country is run. They also have more electricity, water and schools than ever before. Is that bad? If you ask me rescuing people from a monstrous dictator is the ultimate humanitarian act.
Don't forget: Saddam Hussein was throwing people off of buildings with their hands tied behind their backs. He was storming homes of regular citizens and cutting their hands off in front of their entire families. You morons who say it was a senseless war will be but a mere blurb in the history books of tomorrow.
Saddam was an evil bastard but he killed a lot less Iraqis in all his years of rule than Bush did in a couple years of war. Most iraqis have A LOT less freedom now than they did before and their country is mostly a ruin, more electricity schools and water? don't be fucking ridiculous.
Posted by ucflyeah (Member # 32674) on :
coqui78 you need to go back to pre-school math class darling:
compare the numbers and get back to me with your liberally biased excuses.
[ July 30, 2010, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: ucflyeah ]
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
Regardless, both Bush and Obama did their jobs their handlers told them to do..which is keep the left/right paradigm going and cause a race war. The reasons you both have for arguing one's "boy" in the office is hilarious to me.
Posted by greeneyez (Member # 9024) on :
You are exactly right Wrinklesguy. People don't get that it all a big game,a hustle, and we are all being played no matter who is President.No matter who is president we are all getting screwed and they get other fools to fight each other and do their dirty work. While they are sitting in their offices and posh homes we are the fools out on the street protesting and fighting each other while doing their dirty work for them. There are people out there without a pot to piss in protesting and arguing because the rich people are being taxed and the majority of us are not even in that tax bracket? Why would anyone in their right mind be out on the street protesting taxing the rich when they don't have a job or a home? AKA Joe the Plumber.I'm more worried about a roof over my head and food on my table. If you have time to protest then you have time to job hunt.I wish I had the finances to pay to go somewhere, let alone go somewhere to go protest. Must be nice. People without healthcare protesting the Health Care Bill. Huh? Each President has to do what they have to do.
Posted by coqui78 (Member # 9702) on :
quote:Originally posted by ucflyeah: coqui78 you need to go back to pre-school math class darling:
compare the numbers and get back to me with your liberally biased excuses.
Uh your first link says 180k death, the second only 5k. You do realize that comes no where close to how many Iraqis have died in the war don't you?
Posted by ucflyeah (Member # 32674) on :
Those were TWO specific incidents in Saddams 24 year reign. He was Prime Minister from 1979-2003. If you show me proof that more Iraqi's died in this most recent war than ALL OF HIS YEARS IN POWER (which is what you claimed) than I will gladly admit defeat. I'll be waiting...
Scroll down to Iraq, number 32. Keep in mind that this includes 1991, right after the US told the Shi'ítes and the Kurds "Go ahead and rebel, we'll back you up." They rebelled, they didn't get backed up, and they were crushed. 60K Shi'ites were killed. That'll teach them to trust the US.
Want more? here is some of that wonderful freedom we've brought the Iraqi people:
It's laughable how much you've bought into right wing propaganda that you think there is actually any debate at all here.
Posted by GQguy (Member # 16534) on :
quote:Originally posted by ucflyeah: Iraq is now a democracy with it's citizens voting on issues and having a say in how their country is run. They also have more electricity, water and schools than ever before. Is that bad? If you ask me rescuing people from a monstrous dictator is the ultimate humanitarian act.
Don't forget: Saddam Hussein was throwing people off of buildings with their hands tied behind their backs. He was storming homes of regular citizens and cutting their hands off in front of their entire families. You morons who say it was a senseless war will be but a mere blurb in the history books of tomorrow.
I go to war. I've been. My work will be in the history books. It is a senseless war. Have you been? Got to love arm chair generals.
It's their responsibility to protect their country. It's my responsibility to protect my country and the people that serve under me. Even they won't die for their country. Why should we?
How has this bettered the live of Americans? Send me to Darfur. That makes humanitarian sense.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
Regardless of when Iraqi civilians died and under whose watch, it's an atrocity that should never have happened. We shouldn't even be in the region..at all...we have enough oil here which leads a smart person only to believe that it's all about strategic positioning for WW3 against Iran and it's allies. Think about where Iraq and Afghanistan are {yeah, both sides of Iran}.
Posted by ucflyeah (Member # 32674) on :
Scroll down to Iraq, number 32. Keep in mind that this includes 1991, right after the US told the Shi'ítes and the Kurds "Go ahead and rebel, we'll back you up." They rebelled, they didn't get backed up, and they were crushed. 60K Shi'ites were killed. That'll teach them to trust the US.
Want more? here is some of that wonderful freedom we've brought the Iraqi people:
It's laughable how much you've bought into right wing propaganda that you think there is actually any debate at all here.
You SPECIFICALLY said Bush killed more than Saddam Hussein. I'm still waiting for proof. Your links are a joke. NPR? Middle East Online? I bet I could find three articles saying how great things are over there in about 2 minutes. I'll check back tomorrow or Tuesday to see if you've provided the PROOF that you promised. Cause you didn't do it in this link. FAIL
Um...Wrinklesguy and GQGuy I totally disagree with both of your statements. I'll just leave it at that. You guys have your opinion, I have mine. Now let's go check out some pretty toes.
Posted by temp1234 (Member # 33411) on :
He was a terrible human being and president.
What I don't like about his actions is that the US has (and key arab people) been picking on the arab states for years. They fight back once, killing less people than the US have over there.
Bin Laden, like anyone else who can easily take a life, is pure evil too but for me he's on level with Bush and any other warmongering state figure.
I know the US (where I'm from originally) and the rest of the western world hates Bin Laden and his cronies but you really have to take a step back and find out WHY they attacked the US to begin with. History is plagued with stories of invasions in arab states that go wrong. Its never been done. Why people think they can do it is a mystery to me - just let them do what they want and only attack back if they attack first without provocation.
Posted by coqui78 (Member # 9702) on :
quote:Originally posted by ucflyeah: You SPECIFICALLY said Bush killed more than Saddam Hussein. I'm still waiting for proof. Your links are a joke. NPR? Middle East Online? I bet I could find three articles saying how great things are over there in about 2 minutes. I'll check back tomorrow or Tuesday to see if you've provided the PROOF that you promised. Cause you didn't do it in this link. FAIL
Um...Wrinklesguy and GQGuy I totally disagree with both of your statements. I'll just leave it at that. You guys have your opinion, I have mine. Now let's go check out some pretty toes. [/QB]
Whats the point if you are just going to dismiss anything that doesn't agree with your fucked up world view? Conservative estimates put iraqi death in the war around 600k, thats twice as much as what Saddam killed, other estimates put the number way over a million. It is nowhere close, the only freedom Iraqis lacked was the freedom to stand up to Saddam and after a few of those massacres they learned fast not to do that, any of them who simply ignored politics lived a very westernized life, that's why Bin Laden hated him even more than he did us.
Posted by Spruce314 (Member # 35412) on :
I heard our fearless leader saying yesterday that US combat troops will be pulled from Iraq by the end of 2010. For once its not the previous administration's fault.
Regardless of your stand on the war and not discounting loss of life on both sides wouldn't everyone here prefer a post Saddam Iraq?
Posted by ucflyeah (Member # 32674) on :
Where are your numbers stating how many people Saddam has killed in his 24 year run as Prime Minister?
And "conservative estimates" does not constitute proof. Especially if your "conservative estimates" are coming from Middle East online or...hell...even NBC or CNN, ultra-liberal, Bush-did-nothing-good-and-was-the-worst-human-being-ever channels.
Of the "600,000" you believe were killed, how many of those were blown up by their own people? How many suicide bombings did we hear about for years over in Iraq? Does that count in your figuring?
And yes Spruce, Iraq is way better now than it was under Saddam. But of course no comments from the sheep.
Liberals...what a joke Posted by GQguy (Member # 16534) on :
quote:Originally posted by Spruce314: I heard our fearless leader saying yesterday that US combat troops will be pulled from Iraq by the end of 2010. For once its not the previous administration's fault.
Regardless of your stand on the war and not discounting loss of life on both sides wouldn't everyone here prefer a post Saddam Iraq?
I'm not sure. It's not so cut and dry. If the next administration can improve on the developments made in the 80's before the Iran Iraq war then that is the best scenario for Iraq.
War and politics is a funny game. We backed Saddam heavily in the 80's and turned on him in the 90's. We did so to suit our own interest. We don't care about the Iraqi people and never really have. Is that a bad thing? No. Iraqi's don't give a shit about Americans. Just is. I assure you I don't do tours in Iraq to "liberate" anyone but certain people's pocket books.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
The middle east is a powder keg that will NEVER be fixed and continually get worse. It has been predicted, just watch. Iran isn't playing by the big boys' rules neither is N. Korea...I applaud them both for wanting to be sovereign nations.
Posted by Spruce314 (Member # 35412) on :
Funny, I actually agree with you guys for the most part.
We backed the Taliban when the Russians were in Afghanistan and Saddam back in the 80s after the Islamic revolution in Iran. History has proven these to be mistakes. Even further back the way Vietnam was handled was a mistake. These aren't attributable to any one person. Hence all the worlds problems aren't Bush's fault. lol. As Wrinklesguy said, these are US attempts at shaping the world to our liking. This has been going on for a long time.
Yes, the middle east and specifically Jerusalem were predicted to be an area of war and a place of distress for much of the world long ago. That is bound to continue for some time to come... Don't think any of these clowns are meant to fix it either. One day someone will come along with the illusion of a fix...
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
Spruce you got it... Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :
quote:Originally posted by GQguy: These gentlemen that run the country didn't put themselves there.
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