posted
Just wanted to throw this out there because everybody I tell this to looks at me funny. I believe that sports are the last beacon of TRUE talent. I believe that movies/actors/actresses & music/musicians have never been worse or never lacked talent at such a mindboggling percentage. Of course the movie/music thing can be disputed but not sports. The worst NBA player is still WAY better than 90% of college players (maybe even all of them), The worst NFL player has still got so much talent to have made it all the way to pro that very few players will ever realize. And to think of a college kid (or guy with not much experience) could even TRY to hit a fastball from Mariano Riveria is absurd. That being said, somebody with no muscial talent at all can get a record deal and sell millions of records (Britney Spears), or someone could land an acting job that snowballs a career of hit movie after hit movie when the person is a terrible actor (Tom Cruise). Yes, I know there are bad athletes but I tell you what, they won't be around long because the manager will cut him. There's no getting cut in acting, music.
Ok, thanks for listening. If you don't think I'm too nuts, let me know your feelings.
Posts: 238 | Registered: Mar 2007
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posted
I'll comment a bit on the sports part. In Major League Baseball, for example, those who you see playing baseball professionaly are (for the MOST part) better than Triple-A veterans.
Which is why I believe there is such a thing as a Quadruple-A player. A Quadruple-A player is someone who does extremely well in the minors, but is a failure once he hits the majors. General Managers for each Major League team have got to be extremely cautious not to read minor league numbers as if they were Major Leagues. Those who are o.k. in the minors turn out to be better investments for the teams selecting them.
It's a tricky situation, but it clarifies that those who are professionaly involved with someting are much better than those who aspire to be.
posted
I will volunteer some thoughts here as I agree with some of your premise and disagree with some as well:
The athletes in the NFL and the NBA are, largely, a collection of over-paid, whining Prima-Donnas who are incapable of functioning in normal society. Major League Baseball can be included, too, but to a lesser degree. The only "talent" they possess is in sports and they contribute very little to society as a whole - OK, so they give a bus-boy a C-note to impress him.
If you want to see people who are truly gifted and actually work at their craft, go watch a play or a Billiard match (women's or men's). These people can actually function in society, to boot.
As for musicians, among whom I am numbered, I agree that there is an astonishing array of hacks showing up in popular music. At the same time, I don't think that there has been a time in, well, at least, American History when there have been so many gifted musicians available.
If you are seeing the "hacks" and buying their music, you are doing what the various music concerns want: "buy the shit that costs us the least to produce and we'll keep shoving it at you so you don't have to think about it".
There are so many great musical performers out there but you must actively look for them; most of these musicians earn their money by actually having to perform night after night (unlike professional sports, there is no off-season) and from city to city.
There is a comparison here: Both Chess and Music are puzzles. Chess has a finite number of solutions for each puzzle; in Music the solutions are infinite. The Good musician will successfully solve the puzzle every night (we know the success by the applause offered by a knowing and attentive audience). The Great musician will solve the same puzzle DIFFERENTLY every night he/she plays.
I could go on but hope that you will fill in the blanks for yourself. So I'll try to conclude:
Talent is everywhere, as are gifted people, the last place one should look is in Pro-Sports.
Posts: 5067 | Registered: Apr 2005
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posted
A very refreshing way to look at an otherwise dreary post. Thanks for the positive outlook Toetapper. I guess I just wish the great musicians would get a little more recognition.
Example: Miley Cyrus plays to 30,000 people, while Chick Corea plays to 2,500 people.
The good news is that those who go to see Chick Corea are there to listen to him and what he feels inspired to play; the audience actually cares about the music. Those who see Miley Cyrus are there to be able to claim that they were, in fact, there. Beyond that, they don't give a rat's ass about what comes off the stage - though I'm sure it has the gleam of polished metal.
It is a debate that I have been having for (Yikes!) 30 years. At the advent of "Kiss", I was being told that these were the greatest musicians in the world; it was my contention that one must not confuse the ability to make money with the ability to make music. The ability to create great music is no assurance that a lot of money will follow.
I wish I could continue, now...but it seems that there are some other matters that require my attention. Hope that I will be able to finish this rant/lecture/opinion sometime soon.
Posts: 5067 | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Toetapper: I will volunteer some thoughts here as I agree with some of your premise and disagree with some as well:
The athletes in the NFL and the NBA are, largely, a collection of over-paid, whining Prima-Donnas who are incapable of functioning in normal society. Major League Baseball can be included, too, but to a lesser degree. The only "talent" they possess is in sports and they contribute very little to society as a whole - OK, so they give a bus-boy a C-note to impress him.
If you want to see people who are truly gifted and actually work at their craft, go watch a play or a Billiard match (women's or men's). These people can actually function in society, to boot.
As for musicians, among whom I am numbered, I agree that there is an astonishing array of hacks showing up in popular music. At the same time, I don't think that there has been a time in, well, at least, American History when there have been so many gifted musicians available.
If you are seeing the "hacks" and buying their music, you are doing what the various music concerns want: "buy the shit that costs us the least to produce and we'll keep shoving it at you so you don't have to think about it".
There are so many great musical performers out there but you must actively look for them; most of these musicians earn their money by actually having to perform night after night (unlike professional sports, there is no off-season) and from city to city.
There is a comparison here: Both Chess and Music are puzzles. Chess has a finite number of solutions for each puzzle; in Music the solutions are infinite. The Good musician will successfully solve the puzzle every night (we know the success by the applause offered by a knowing and attentive audience). The Great musician will solve the same puzzle DIFFERENTLY every night he/she plays.
I could go on but hope that you will fill in the blanks for yourself. So I'll try to conclude:
Talent is everywhere, as are gifted people, the last place one should look is in Pro-Sports.
Being an up and coming musician in Detroit this topic hits me hard.
Athletes are very well talented but majority of them let their talents get in the way because they let their egos get in the way. The thing about athletes is their careers don't end by the new guy coming in who's worse than they are. The next big thing doesn't always guarentee you a spot as the starter in the professional level. Just ask Reggie Bush who he ran behind his rookie year.
That being said, there's no possible way you can say there's no talent left in music. If you're looking at the radio and MTV and comparing that to professional sports, you have a right to say that. But I live and play music on a daily basis and the majority of my friends are professional musicians and I can tell you that's not true.
The reason why people feel music talent is dead is because of the music industry itself. They don't want the talented people, they want a good looking face and an ingnorant person because they will do whatever the label tells them to do. These artists are basically their slaves. The American Idol winners are perfect examples. The issue with the record labels is they ignore what truly makes music (you know theory) for money. They would take some of these "real" musicians except they don't want to go along with the mold or standard the industry has setup. That or the musicians choose not to get involved because they know where it leads. So where are the real musicians? Most of them do other things. Many of them are the producers behind the songs or the studio horn players. Most of them are writing songs for artists, movies or TV shows. Many of them don't want that spotlight yet, some of them do. There is still plenty of music talent out the especially where I live. The truth is, the competition level is so high, people are literally fighting for jobs regardless of the level.
The mainstream musical talent really isn't talented at all as Toetapper said which why I used his post. Most of them aren't even technically gifted. If you had them take voice lessons, most of them probably couldn't finish the lesson because they don't know how to sing in a way their voice projects clearly (trust me, I'm a counter-tenor. I understand this). As for the comment about Chick Corea and Miley Cyrus, you're DEAD on. IMO the difference between them is not necessarily the amount of people who come to their shows but the respect level each receives. I can guarantee you that everyone in the crowd respects Chick for what he does. I don't believe that even a 20th of the crowd respects Miley for what she does. Yes she does actually sing her songs but she's a Disney pop princess and we all know how far that goes (Lindsay Lohan anyone?). When you receive the respect that Chick Corea gets you know what you're doing is genuine. That genuine respect inspires other musicians to do what he does but they'll never be him because they approach music differently.
And yes, musicians do get cut. Why do you think you never see artists one year later? The industry is on to the next big thing and the person who sold double platinum is kicked out the door. Only so they can recycle the old songs that people used to love. They've run into a problem because people are starting to figure it out but as long as it sells, they won't change it.
Yes I dragged my point out alot but just using athletes as a basis for true talent is just turning a blind eye to the great talent in all other aspects in the world. I just had a conversation with someone yesterday and they said no one has respect for the arts anymore. I leave you with that to think about...
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