posted
Like most people in here, I get very uncomfortable when I hear news that leaves us far out of reach from doing anything to help the person in need. In this case I'm talking about Bowe R. Bergdahl, a man from Idaho who is currently help captive by the Taliban.
I hope I'm not the only one here who hopes that nothing horrific happens to him. Something tells me that the worse is more likely to happen, which makes this story heart-wrenching! People are out there fighting to protect us from being blindsided from terrorists acts again, and it pisses me off to hear one of our men in combat is being subjected to this kind of fate.
posted
Indeed...and the follow up question to this is why are we so heavily entrenched in Afghanistan? We pulled out of Iraq mostly to send everyone and then some to Afghan?WTF President O..I thought we'd see some change? I bet he forgot that the Russians already tryed to do this back in the 70's and lost their Asses..
posted
Speaking as a former Marine, I hope for his safe return as well and I'm sure they are doing something ,but if they blast it all over the news that won't accomplish anything. Don't you think the taliban and it's US informants watch the news. If we broadcast our every move they will be 1 step ahead of us and he might as well be dead at that point. The media is the military's worst enemy when it comes to troop movement and tactics. And yes I'm speaking from personal experience.
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posted
Yeah man, I think this sort of shit was summed up by a German general in World War I:
quote:General Ludendorff after seeing the British soldiers running into shellfire from the Germans: "Lions lead by donkeys."
It's fucking sick that we're still there...we really have no business there...(a fair few British soldiers have been captured) and there are guys dying daily due to inadequate support. We do not belong in Afghanistan. May this war end soon and no more lives lost.
quote:Originally posted by Andy-Laa: Yeah man, I think this sort of shit was summed up by a German general in World War I:
quote:General Ludendorff after seeing the British soldiers running into shellfire from the Germans: "Lions lead by donkeys."
It's fucking sick that we're still there...we really have no business there...(a fair few British soldiers have been captured) and there are guys dying daily due to inadequate support. We do not belong in Afghanistan. May this war end soon and no more lives lost.
When it comes to Afghanistan we(Americans) are there to ensure that the new government doesn't harbor al quaeda like it did in the 90's. Remember that Osama Bin Laden is still believed to be somewhere on the Afghani/ Pakistani boarder. Americans and the world can't afford to leave Afghanistan to fend for it's self like we did after they ousted the Soviets. We know how that will work out. Even now history has been repeating it's self as we lost focused after the initial invasion and now the Taliban is back in full force. Hence why Robert Gates just made the request for 22,000 extra troops.
I know as a Brit you might not see the Taliban and Al Qaeda as a threat. Regardless of your political views, if Britain crosses these individuals Britain will also see these indiscriminate killers on their shores too.
As for our missing brother in arms. I believe as i'm sure he believes that we are doing the best to retrieve him. We never leave a soldier/airman/marine or seaman behind. Thats how we live.
GQ
-------------------- If she won't indulge your fetish, I bet you that cuter, smarter girl across the bar will. Lets go find out. Posts: 1877 | Registered: Aug 2006
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quote:Originally posted by GQguy: When it comes to Afghanistan we(Americans) are there to ensure that the new government doesn't harbor al quaeda like it did in the 90's.
Yeah, that's what you're told :/ Couldn't possibly be to do with it being the most oil-rich region in the world...
(I understand you're patriotic, so you don't believe that's what you're there for...but you are unfortunately. And under the guise of protecting the world...I reckon if they'd never been invaded..they kinda wouldn't WANT to go to war with you.)
quote:Originally posted by GQguy: Americans and the world can't afford to leave Afghanistan to fend for it's self like we did after they ousted the Soviets. We know how that will work out. Even now history has been repeating it's self as we lost focused after the initial invasion and now the Taliban is back in full force. Hence why Robert Gates just made the request for 22,000 extra troops.
History repeating itself? Try when we invaded the Middle East in...I can't remember when exactly - sometime in the early 1900s - and were slaughtered. It's their terrain...it really is suicidally stupid to try it again. Basically it's a guide on how to piss them off.
quote:Originally posted by GQguy: I know as a Brit you might not see the Taliban and Al Qaeda as a threat. Regardless of your political views, if Britain crosses these individuals Britain will also see these indiscriminate killers on their shores too.
There you have it. Good use of phrasing; very accurately put. "*IF* Britain crosses these individuals." Personally, I wouldn't cross them, wouldn't dream of it: I'd avoid at all costs. Having said that, I'm not in charge and corporate greed will always prevail over morals. We are crossing them just by being there when we shouldn't. This is why I'm saying they shouldn't be there...
quote:Originally posted by GQguy: As for our missing brother in arms. I believe as i'm sure he believes that we are doing the best to retrieve him. We never leave a soldier/airman/marine or seaman behind. Thats how we live.
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Andy-Laa:Don't forget when Alexander the Great tried to conquer the area as well, he did some damage but ultimatley {despite modern history books} failed as well. It's the terrain for sure,you're talking about full scale battles on the slopes of the Rocky Mtns. wow! And yes, it's about the southern end of the pipeline that will run the straight of Hormuz as well as strategic positioning to be ready for Iran or Pakistan...all they have to do to get the American or British people to rally around it is cry "Terrorists"...we should know that by now.
quote:Originally posted by GQguy: When it comes to Afghanistan we(Americans) are there to ensure that the new government doesn't harbor al quaeda like it did in the 90's.
Yeah, that's what you're told :/ Couldn't possibly be to do with it being the most oil-rich region in the world...
(I understand you're patriotic, so you don't believe that's what you're there for...but you are unfortunately. And under the guise of protecting the world...I reckon if they'd never been invaded..they kinda wouldn't WANT to go to war with you.)
quote:Originally posted by GQguy: Americans and the world can't afford to leave Afghanistan to fend for it's self like we did after they ousted the Soviets. We know how that will work out. Even now history has been repeating it's self as we lost focused after the initial invasion and now the Taliban is back in full force. Hence why Robert Gates just made the request for 22,000 extra troops.
History repeating itself? Try when we invaded the Middle East in...I can't remember when exactly - sometime in the early 1900s - and were slaughtered. It's their terrain...it really is suicidally stupid to try it again. Basically it's a guide on how to piss them off.
quote:Originally posted by GQguy: I know as a Brit you might not see the Taliban and Al Qaeda as a threat. Regardless of your political views, if Britain crosses these individuals Britain will also see these indiscriminate killers on their shores too.
There you have it. Good use of phrasing; very accurately put. "*IF* Britain crosses these individuals." Personally, I wouldn't cross them, wouldn't dream of it: I'd avoid at all costs. Having said that, I'm not in charge and corporate greed will always prevail over morals. We are crossing them just by being there when we shouldn't. This is why I'm saying they shouldn't be there...
quote:Originally posted by GQguy: As for our missing brother in arms. I believe as i'm sure he believes that we are doing the best to retrieve him. We never leave a soldier/airman/marine or seaman behind. Thats how we live.
I genuinely hope you're right about that, GQ.
Afghanistan is a worthless barren piece of land. It's not oil rich. It's tough to farm. There are little redeaming qualities about the place. So we're not there for oil.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_oil_pro-energy-oil-production Afghanistan is number 115! We(americans) helped the mujahideen oust the Russians in the 80's leaving a void in power. This allowed the Taliban to take control. Not a big deal to us Americans(and the world) till they played host to Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden. Now there is an issue. We attacked those that aided Al Qaeda operatives in 2001 but we lost sight of things in 2003 when we went to Iraq. With our new president we are again concerned with national security and refocusing on ensuring that history does not repeat it's self. In that we leave Afghanistan and another tyranical gov takes over.
As for the "American's started it" bit...hmmm. I can understand Iraqis having a beef with us. But Al Qaeda was illiegal and heavily surpressed in Iraq in the Saddam days. Really. We backed Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan in the 80's. We saved his home country(Saudi Arabia) from invasion from the Iraqi's in the early 90's. American/western culture and this idea of "freedom" is in stark contrast to the muslim state practicing sharia law. Many young muslims love our culture and ideas (see iran and it's green revolution). Just by the U.S. existing we are a threat to the highest muslim leaders. In the days of old the muslims spread their culture and ideology by the sword... the same way old christians did. That option is taken from the table so they resort to terror to make their ends. On the other end of the spectrum we have Americans that use fear mongering to give up our rights and to go to unjustifiable wars (Iraq). But make no mistake, terror is real and the war in Afghanistan will help secure the safety of our children. We have nothing to gain but safety.
People forget how human nature works. Those in power tend to try to gain more power and stay in power as long as possible. Make no mistake. While Al Qaeda is at our door, they will soon be at yours too. And they aren't nice. Civilian casualties are their goal, not a reason for disgrace, guilt and punishment in our forces. They don't negotiate. And the current Afghanistan makes for a good practice ground for these guys to train and spread their violence.
Might is not right. My opinion is highly biased but if free men don't stand up for the rights of men in bondage, then we are all doomed for a life of bondage. Much like with Germany in the early 40's, had we let Europe fall to the germans it wouldn't be long before they were at the American shores.
We will surpress the Taliban and build a successful gov in Afghanistan. And then we will leave. That can't be said for any of the empires that have existed since the begining of time regardless of all the faults people throw at my country.
GQguy
-------------------- If she won't indulge your fetish, I bet you that cuter, smarter girl across the bar will. Lets go find out. Posts: 1877 | Registered: Aug 2006
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posted
I might wade into such a debate elsewhere but I can't stand that this thread, originally hoping for the best for a soldier - and by simple extenstion, all of our loved ones gone to war - has turned into more meat-headed political tripe.
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