Ive been to the main foot fetish venues in New York City.. My question is... Am I missing anything or is there any thing different about the foot fetish venues in Philadelphia... The only one I know of is "Feet of Philly".. {Ive heard that the rules are not as strict in Philly)...
Posted by jammasterjay (Member # 39588) on :
Do you mean the parties they have? If so, all of them are exactly the same - disappointing.
It sounds cool to worship all these girls feet, until you realize that the girls toes in your mouth were in some other guys mouth a few minutes earlier. Plus, most of the girls there try to hustle you for your cash. I sat down next to a girl at one of the Philly parties last year, and she swung around and without asking me, put her bare feet in my lap and told me how tired she was from the party (it was late). It seemed like small talk, not a session, and she was very nice to talk to. After a while (during which I barely touched her feet) I told her I had to go and got up to leave. She then told me that the time she spent with me equaled $240.00. I'm not kidding! It was a joke. The girls at these parties could care less about foot fetish, they just laugh at the guys giving them money for it. And ultimately, you leave with blue balls since no sexual activity occurs.
The Philly party people had some sort of falling out, and now there are two of these parties. The "Feet of Philly" guy, has his parties, and actually charges you $80.00 just to walk in the door! Amazing. His ex-partner takes a more realistic approach, and charges a $25.00 cover (or close to it), but both parties give you the same hustle and ultimate disappointment. Be wary.
Posted by Lars (Member # 1461) on :
the foot parties in New York City rocks Posted by mjl1717 (Member # 2939) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lars: the foot parties in New York City rocks
Agree, maybe Ill just stick to New York foot parties.. Unless Im in the Philly area...(sounds like alot of hustling there!) {At least they know my face and my rep in New York} [lol]
Posted by mjl1717 (Member # 2939) on :
Thanks for the info guys..
Posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com (Member # 13717) on :
quote:Originally posted by jammasterjay: Do you mean the parties they have? If so, all of them are exactly the same - disappointing.
It sounds cool to worship all these girls feet, until you realize that the girls toes in your mouth were in some other guys mouth a few minutes earlier. Plus, most of the girls there try to hustle you for your cash. I sat down next to a girl at one of the Philly parties last year, and she swung around and without asking me, put her bare feet in my lap and told me how tired she was from the party (it was late). It seemed like small talk, not a session, and she was very nice to talk to. After a while (during which I barely touched her feet) I told her I had to go and got up to leave. She then told me that the time she spent with me equaled $240.00. I'm not kidding! It was a joke. The girls at these parties could care less about foot fetish, they just laugh at the guys giving them money for it. And ultimately, you leave with blue balls since no sexual activity occurs.
The Philly party people had some sort of falling out, and now there are two of these parties. The "Feet of Philly" guy, has his parties, and actually charges you $80.00 just to walk in the door! Amazing. His ex-partner takes a more realistic approach, and charges a $25.00 cover (or close to it), but both parties give you the same hustle and ultimate disappointment. Be wary.
Posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com (Member # 13717) on :
quote:Originally posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com:
quote:Originally posted by jammasterjay: Do you mean the parties they have? If so, all of them are exactly the same - disappointing.
It sounds cool to worship all these girls feet, until you realize that the girls toes in your mouth were in some other guys mouth a few minutes earlier. Plus, most of the girls there try to hustle you for your cash. I sat down next to a girl at one of the Philly parties last year, and she swung around and without asking me, put her bare feet in my lap and told me how tired she was from the party (it was late). It seemed like small talk, not a session, and she was very nice to talk to. After a while (during which I barely touched her feet) I told her I had to go and got up to leave. She then told me that the time she spent with me equaled $240.00. I'm not kidding! It was a joke. The girls at these parties could care less about foot fetish, they just laugh at the guys giving them money for it. And ultimately, you leave with blue balls since no sexual activity occurs.
The Philly party people had some sort of falling out, and now there are two of these parties. The "Feet of Philly" guy, has his parties, and actually charges you $80.00 just to walk in the door! Amazing. His ex-partner takes a more realistic approach, and charges a $25.00 cover (or close to it), but both parties give you the same hustle and ultimate disappointment. Be wary.
I know, what the hell, people! This is a general rant, not for the original poster by any means, But, imho, if you cannot manipulate a woman to let you do shit with her feet, your not a fetishist, your a friggin pussy. This is foot fetish, not bukkake. I mean, really how hard is it?!? And to kiss the feet of a girl that has had 20 guys slobber on her feet before?!? Are you gay? Why not just make out with the dudes, probably would be cheaper... If it's your cup of tea, great. But imho, for 80 bucks you could have snagged a random honey out of the grocery store and smelled her feet in her car. Sometimes I do not get you people and yes, this board has changed.
It's not like we are in the worst recession since the 1920's, if you can't hustle it, buy it. Who gives a shit what people think of you, really. Your a fetishist, not a sniveling mindfuck slave. Some of you just need to get out of your groove and start living life, not "shoulda, woulda, coulda". Unless you like the prospect of jacking off to what could have been 40 years later when we are all old and the means to fulfill desire is that much farther away from you.
I mean, do any of you ever sit back, put your lust away for one second and evaluate the shit that makes you who you are? You create your own reality, you hold the keys to your own destiny, and you, ultimately decide how you treat your fetishistic desires. And imho, if your half throttle for the rest of your life, you deserve what you get. And you have not truly seen the mountain top of subversive eroticism, your just fucking around with it, poking it with the stick that is your own insecurities. I am not prone to rants, or talking so abrasively, but really people, man the hell up for crying out loud. ...This shit is really not that hard. i have been like this since I was 10 years old and am not a super attractive guy. I have never had a problem turning out a woman in that way. Some of you people need to dig deep down and stop being so lazy. All of the keys that you need are already in your mind. You are already empowered, your just too blind to see it. Blah...</end rant>
[ July 26, 2010, 03:04 AM: Message edited by: Beautifulfeetonline.com ]
Posted by mjl1717 (Member # 2939) on :
quote:Originally posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com:
quote:Originally posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com:
quote:Originally posted by jammasterjay: Do you mean the parties they have? If so, all of them are exactly the same - disappointing.
It sounds cool to worship all these girls feet, until you realize that the girls toes in your mouth were in some other guys mouth a few minutes earlier. Plus, most of the girls there try to hustle you for your cash. I sat down next to a girl at one of the Philly parties last year, and she swung around and without asking me, put her bare feet in my lap and told me how tired she was from the party (it was late). It seemed like small talk, not a session, and she was very nice to talk to. After a while (during which I barely touched her feet) I told her I had to go and got up to leave. She then told me that the time she spent with me equaled $240.00. I'm not kidding! It was a joke. The girls at these parties could care less about foot fetish, they just laugh at the guys giving them money for it. And ultimately, you leave with blue balls since no sexual activity occurs.
The Philly party people had some sort of falling out, and now there are two of these parties. The "Feet of Philly" guy, has his parties, and actually charges you $80.00 just to walk in the door! Amazing. His ex-partner takes a more realistic approach, and charges a $25.00 cover (or close to it), but both parties give you the same hustle and ultimate disappointment. Be wary.
I know, what the hell, people! This is a general rant, not for the original poster by any means, But, imho, if you cannot manipulate a woman to let you do shit with her feet, your not a fetishist, your a friggin pussy. This is foot fetish, not bukkake. I mean, really how hard is it?!? And to kiss the feet of a girl that has had 20 guys slobber on her feet before?!? Are you gay? Why not just make out with the dudes, probably would be cheaper... If it's your cup of tea, great. But imho, for 80 bucks you could have snagged a random honey out of the grocery store and smelled her feet in her car. Sometimes I do not get you people and yes, this board has changed.
It's not like we are in the worst recession since the 1920's, if you can't hustle it, buy it. Who gives a shit what people think of you, really. Your a fetishist, not a sniveling mindfuck slave. Some of you just need to get out of your groove and start living life, not "shoulda, woulda, coulda". Unless you like the prospect of jacking off to what could have been 40 years later when we are all old and the means to fulfill desire is that much farther away from you.
I mean, do any of you ever sit back, put your lust away for one second and evaluate the shit that makes you who you are? You create your own reality, you hold the keys to your own destiny, and you, ultimately decide how you treat your fetishistic desires. And imho, if your half throttle for the rest of your life, you deserve what you get. And you have not truly seen the mountain top of subversive eroticism, your just fucking around with it, poking it with the stick that is your own insecurities. I am not prone to rants, or talking so abrasively, but really people, man the hell up for crying out loud. ...This shit is really not that hard. i have been like this since I was 10 years old and am not a super attractive guy. I have never had a problem turning out a woman in that way. Some of you people need to dig deep down and stop being so lazy. All of the keys that you need are already in your mind. You are already empowered, your just too blind to see it. Blah...</end rant>
I can relate to what you say and Im NOT saying I totally disagree with you! But a few points..
1)Many would agree-"Life is NOT as easy as you claim"!-- [ Dont see you offering any secrets of your success]
2)If you are the first guy with a lady you dont have to worry about 20 other dudes slobbering on her feet.
3)Foot fetish venues, brothels, casinos, even lottery stores survive for a reason and everyone has something that they are very,very passionate about ...[ Geez-The Romans had orgies]
Peace
[ July 27, 2010, 02:40 AM: Message edited by: mjl1717 ]
Posted by goodguyneighbor (Member # 2824) on :
Well I'll be photographing the next Los Angeles Footnight party as usual on August 12th.
Stop by and socialize with your fellow foot enthusiasts if nothing else.
There are always cute new girls and things are more laid-back here on the west coast.
Posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com (Member # 13717) on :
My only secret is that I am confident. I am also a bit outspoken. But in my mind, us, we, you, as a community are 99.9 percent better than vanilla guys that don't even fuck correctly. It pains me that footies have a problem with this.
And as I stated, I am not hating on the "foot party" scene, I just do not understand the drive to go and do that after other guys have done their business... unless you are the first as you stated.
Also I think that we, as a community are above that, if that makes any sense.
[ July 27, 2010, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: Beautifulfeetonline.com ]
Posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com (Member # 13717) on :
Also my approach is simple. When I was in high school I would go to the mall, into places like ann taylor, claire's boutiques, etc. and con the sales ladies into thinking that I was a pledge for a fraternity and had to smell some random girls feet that had to meet me there. There was no girl, I just made her up. I would sit at whatever store I was in to size up the sales lady, make small talk, having her look at me, not as a threat or some pervy little boy, but a good guy that needed this to get into my made up fraternity. 60-70 percent of the time, they would be like "what the hell", you can smell my feet. I had them write on paper that they let me do it and I still have those souvenirs. Shit, some sales ladies lied to me and said that they were the girl that was suppost to let me worship their feet. It was priceless. Some other sales girls would say that if the boss was not around, they would have no problem letting me smell their feet.
Fast forward to 2010. To be honest, I do not fall back on my website, and say, "Hi, my name is Christiaan Howard, I own beautifulfeetonline.com, I want to smell your feet. I still play the shy, not sure of himself type of guy and the "cuteness" of that seems to have the girls letting me worship them. I do not state that I am a fetishist first off. I ease my way into it. I give them general facts about me. I set them at ease that I am not trying to fuck them. I say little things. I leave it up to them whether or not they want to pursue the issue or not. Usually they do. After that, and within the week of knowing them, I usually state that I am a lifestyle fetishist and yada yada...
Most women are intrigued with us once they realize that we are not a "threat" and that we are not like the other, more vanilla guys out there. If you make them feel comfortable, they will usually let you do whatever. Especially if you do a good job for them. They will keep coming back, again and again. If anything, for the foot massages. Also let me be clear, in my mind, we service women. What woman would not want to be worshipped like a living, breathing God? As I said before, we, as fetishists already have desire on our side. As well as the ridiculous sexy things that we can do with our tongues and teeth.
It is all about manipulation. Not in a bad way, but to push the walls and walls of self percieved ulterior motives aside so that they can see the true intentions in the heart of it all. Kinda like your first roller coaster ride that you were scared shitless of, until you took the plunge, had the time of your life and cannot wait to get back on.
And for God's sake, be CONFIDENT!!! Act like you don't give a shit either way. Although your dying inside. Sadly, in life, everything is a "game" to some extent...
That is my opinion, that is the way I am in personal life.
[ July 27, 2010, 03:15 PM: Message edited by: Beautifulfeetonline.com ]
Posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com (Member # 13717) on :
...Also be aware, I am a lifestyle fetishist. Everyone knows. I do not keep it a secret, even as a kid, it was not a secret.
Posted by briar (Member # 22228) on :
@beautifulfeetonline - cool story, bro. What does any of that crap have to do with the thread topic?
Posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com (Member # 13717) on :
quote:Originally posted by briar: @beautifulfeetonline - cool story, bro. What does any of that crap have to do with the thread topic?
...uh, i answered the original posters question.
Posted by houseshooz (Member # 10572) on :
quote:Originally posted by jammasterjay: It sounds cool to worship all these girls feet, until you realize that the girls toes in your mouth were in some other guys mouth a few minutes earlier. Plus, most of the girls there try to hustle you for your cash. I sat down next to a girl at one of the Philly parties last year, and she swung around and without asking me, put her bare feet in my lap and told me how tired she was from the party (it was late). It seemed like small talk, not a session, and she was very nice to talk to. After a while (during which I barely touched her feet) I told her I had to go and got up to leave. She then told me that the time she spent with me equaled $240.00. I'm not kidding! It was a joke. The girls at these parties could care less about foot fetish, they just laugh at the guys giving them money for it. And ultimately, you leave with blue balls since no sexual activity occurs.
Isn't that pretty much like any strip club you go to? The girls there don't really want to talk to you or care about pleasing you, they're just doing their job.
I know it sucks getting hustled, which is why I don't to strip clubs anymore, but it's foolish to think the women are there for any other reason than to drain your bank account.
No offense to the guys who run foot parties but what the FF community is missing is organization. If people came to foot forums to actually network rather than just download then we could probably have free (or far less expensive and much closer) organized venues going on all the time. Rather than having to fly to one coast or the other only to get treated as you mentioned and end up spending an outrageous amount of money just to get some feet.
Posted by wvcple2003 (Member # 5268) on :
quote:Originally posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com:
quote:Originally posted by briar: @beautifulfeetonline - cool story, bro. What does any of that crap have to do with the thread topic?
...uh, i answered the original posters question.
Actually you didn't. He was asking a question about being between two cities! But that was a thorough answer anyways my good man; even tho most of it had no meaning to the topic and made no sense whatsoever!
[ July 29, 2010, 03:00 AM: Message edited by: wvcple2003 ]
Posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com (Member # 13717) on :
wvcple2003, imho, your an idiot.
Posted by nerdbuster (Member # 14341) on :
Guys, I don't know what it's like in the U.S. but here in Australia they have erotic massage services. For about $100, you can have a cute chick do pretty much whatever you want (except BJs and sex) for an hour.
Whenever I go, I just get them to rub their feet all over my body, let me suck their toes, and finish with an awesome footjob at the end. You'll be surprised how many of them are footjob virgins.. it's shocking! Oh, and they shower between massages so you don't have to worry about the last guy :-)
I love them because of the variety - sometimes you feel like a hot thai chick, a sexy white chick and if you're lucky they have some smoking South American ones too!
Man, all this talk is making me feel like going now! haha
Posted by wvcple2003 (Member # 5268) on :
quote:Originally posted by mjl1717: Ive been to the main foot fetish venues in New York City.. My question is... Am I missing anything or is there any thing different about the foot fetish venues in Philadelphia... The only one I know of is "Feet of Philly".. {Ive heard that the rules are not as strict in Philly)...
So im an idiot? Read the above question dipshit, thats the first posters quid pro quo. Hes asking if theres anything different between the New York and Philly foot parties! But you go onto a completely retarded rant about how foot parties are stupid, and your better than anyone that goes there. Stfu, and learn to read before you decide to babble incoherent shit, and call other people stupid, jackass!
[ July 30, 2010, 01:14 AM: Message edited by: wvcple2003 ]
Posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com (Member # 13717) on :
You post non relevant retardation all of the time, just calling them like I see them. In addition you have a low self esteem, obviously YOU were one of the nerves I am trying to hit. Thanks for making it so easy...
The second post was in response to the original posters question to me. This is not about me, and I am just offering opinions. This is a forum, last time I checked.
Posted by wvcple2003 (Member # 5268) on :
"non relevant retardation", lovely. Did it take you very long to think that up, because you shoulda read through all your fuckin stupid posts...The fuckin guy asked whether Philly or NY shows are better. Simple question; but you get into a rant about being a lonely geek, and stated buying feet on the street is better than going to a footshow!
Edit. Your not hitting a nerve with me btw; I actually get the wife over to read dumbshit posts like yours, and we both laugh before I reply! Your a funny funny guy. Very funny?????
[ July 30, 2010, 03:12 AM: Message edited by: wvcple2003 ]
Posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com (Member # 13717) on :
So in summary, I think your an idiot, you think I'm a dumbass. So agree to disagree then it is, on this fine Friday morning.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
I challenge both of you to attend one of my Foot Parties...next one is August 7th {next Saturday night in the Sacramento,California area} you will walk in free, and be treated completely different than your prejudices about the women you seem think exist at all these parties...any takers?
Posted by wvcple2003 (Member # 5268) on :
Im not gonna flame this thread (If you can call It that) any more than this last post. Wrinklesguy; I never said anything against a foot party, please read my earlier posts compared to the dipshits one above me. And BFO, start from the beginning and read the first post; It has nothing to do with the useless rambling you did in post, after post, after post, after post, that you did, so shhhhhhhhhhhh!
Posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com (Member # 13717) on :
I'm trying to take the high road here. If you want to continue to be a little girl about this, so be it. I disagree with you and think that you really contribute nothing to this forum. But I will not get into back and forth name calling, as I am not a 10 year old anymore. But your banter speaks volumes of your maturity level, or lack thereof.
Wrinklesguy, I would love too, but I am currently traveling and shooting models. Good luck with your party though!
Posted by wvcple2003 (Member # 5268) on :
OK; lets explain this slowly for the people like BFO that rode the short bus to school. The guys asked if The venues in Philly were different than the ones in NYC. END OF STORY. Thats all he fucking asked; can you get that through your thick, retarded skull BFO; that is all he asked! You proceeded to belate him and others over their choice to go to a foot venue in the first place; (you double posted btw, just thought we should have that out in the open), and you wanna call me a little girl. Your pathetic!
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
can't we all just "get along"? lol Although BFO was the first dog to bark on this thread..it takes 2 to tango.. Posted by wvcple2003 (Member # 5268) on :
Exactly Wrinkles; he barked when he shoulda kept his muzzle shut!
Posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com (Member # 13717) on :
quote:Originally posted by wvcple2003: OK; lets explain this slowly for the people like BFO that rode the short bus to school. The guys asked if The venues in Philly were different than the ones in NYC. END OF STORY. Thats all he fucking asked; can you get that through your thick, retarded skull BFO; that is all he asked! You proceeded to belate him and others over their choice to go to a foot venue in the first place; (you double posted btw, just thought we should have that out in the open), and you wanna call me a little girl. Your pathetic!
Who cares? It is an opinion. I made it clear that I was not attacking the original poster and that it was a general rant, As I stated before. This is a forum, and anyone is free to disagree is they wish. Some people do not like the concept of foot parties. Deal with it. ...And who gives a shit about double posting?!? Really? I would most likely not call you a little girl if you would stop acting like one.
Posted by goodguyneighbor (Member # 2824) on :
Hey BFO, what happened to the parties that you used to promote?
They got shut down in Colo. Since moving back to L.A., I still do private events, but they are more "adult industry parties" in nature.
Since making beautfulfeetonline a "reality" site of sorts, traveling the U.S. and shooting, I have just been swamped and have not had time to do any events in Los Angeles since last year How are you? Hope your well.
Posted by Tyler D. (Member # 11452) on :
quote:Originally posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com: But imho, for 80 bucks you could have snagged a random honey out of the grocery store and smelled her feet in her car.
I know exactly what ya mean, and that would be money VERY well spent imho
i read that article about your previous fetish parties. I remember some great times in Denver at that club called "Snake Pit". You know how to pick'em, hope you have better luck with the authorities if you ever decide to host those sort of events anymore.
I agree that it sux when girls are trying to drain our wallets. Have had to find better ways to negotiate when girls get greedy Posted by goodguyneighbor (Member # 2824) on :
Just another day at the beach.
Posted by Patrick (Member # 1169) on :
Yet more arguments. I really hope this doesn't become the norm. This time around I won't defend anyone, but if threads just turn to fighting and insults, I'll just close them. Please try to keep these free of that. If you must fight, hit the Personal Message button and have at it.
As for the topic, I've been to a few private foot parties - none of these listed ones. I won't say where or who threw them, but I was able to meet some new models at them. Years ago I also talked about going to one with my then girlfriend and letting her make some cash and me go have some fun too. Never happened though.
In my view, if you know what you're getting into and you're fine with it, then go for it. But if you go to them and they just don't feel right, then try your luck elsewhere. There are also many Dominatrixes out there that do foot worship sessions that are cheaper than the normal BSDM/SM stuff they're used to. Just another option should you decide they're not for you.
Patrick
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
LOL Patrick, u know the heat must be turned up to have Guy reply to a thread other his Pic threads haha!
So BFO: Why did they shut you down in Colorado?Was there something illegal going on? It's also a GOOD thing you didn't pick up a meth head from the grocery store btw! lol..ew.
Posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com (Member # 13717) on :
I got a "flaggelation" and "spanking" charge. Only the second time since 1915 that a person was charged with that. My attorney fought valiantly, but to no avail. All because there was liquor involved. Colorado government is very conservative. There is not one fetish club in Denver, which has a population over 4 million. Just sad.
Please be clear, they were not "foot parties", just general pervy parties. I had 600-1000 people a pop. They were big. And I would get my pornstar friends to headline them. Even was going to collaborate with Perry Mann at one point.
Oh I don't know, I have chosen random girls who were not drug addicts and have swooned them or paid them to smell their feet for a little bit off camera. College girls, secretaries, working class women who do not make that much in retail and could use the money.
You are a producer as well, if you own NorCal and maybe we just have the gift of gab to make women feel super comfortable. Why shouldn't we help our surfers do other stuff individually, other than jacking off to our material? The whole premise for the rant was that I just think that the foot community needs to stop looking at a simple foot fetish as some some major big deal that is untouchable and non attainable. My goal as owner of Beautifulfeetonline is to educate as well as serve up foot and pantyhose video. It's not all about the money. For me, it's also about continuing to serve my community like I have. From being a fetish party promoter to producer to director and beyond...
Just happy to be here, even if I get into it with other forum members from time to time. It's nothing personal. I would much rather have a back and forth with someone that somewhat understands me than a vanilla that has no conception of passion for female feet or modern woman worship.
[ August 03, 2010, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Beautifulfeetonline.com ]
Posted by wvcple2003 (Member # 5268) on :
quote:Originally posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com: They got shut down in Colo. Since moving back to L.A., I still do private events, but they are more "adult industry parties" in nature.
Since making beautfulfeetonline a "reality" site of sorts, traveling the U.S. and shooting, I have just been swamped and have not had time to do any events in Los Angeles since last year How are you? Hope your well.
Damn, thats a bitch my friend; especially when foot parties start sucking AFTER your money making foot party schemes get shut down; I guess that would be a great cause to put every other footloving party guy down! So sorry for your loss.
Posted by Beautifulfeetonline.com (Member # 13717) on :
Never did a foot party. My events were sponsored by Skin Two magazine and Hustler's Taboo Magazine to name a few. They don't "do" footparties...
They were general fetish parties. Everything from spanking, play piercing, candle wax, corset training, trampling, firebreathing, burlesque, yes, there was foot worship, but I never promoted the events as such. I charged 25.00 for cover and 3 dollar drinks, for the most part.
But you are right, imho, most foot parties are schemes. One of the reason I am so down on them.
I am sure there are some foot parties that are not schemes, and I am not trying to badmouth any of the legitimate fetishists trying to work for our community, but for the most part... yeah.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Violent]](graemlins/violent.gif)
![[Cry]](cry.gif)
How are you? Hope your well.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Yet more arguments. I really hope this doesn't become the norm. This time around I won't defend anyone, but if threads just turn to fighting and insults, I'll just close them. Please try to keep these free of that. If you must fight, hit the Personal Message button and have at it.