This is topic Where is Everybody? in forum Foot Fetish Talk at Foot Fetish Forum.


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Posted by Solomonsheir (Member # 51922) on :
 
Forum used to seem more active to me when I lurked, Now it's light traffic it seems. FF going out of style?
 
Posted by Fair Adam (Member # 13350) on :
 
I think part of it is that the net is now saturated with foot fetish content, so traffic is more spread out for all sites.
 
Posted by Craigy boy (Member # 3340) on :
 
People come and go. Some of us have been here for a decade or more. This is a great site still. But for sure, you have facebook & instagram that is probably more immediate.
 
Posted by danfootman (Member # 51973) on :
 
I agree. It's a lot less active here than when I started lurking in 2011.
 
Posted by Bigbbwfeet (Member # 51598) on :
 
Shhh! If we pretend we don't notice maybe it'll go away! If any of y'all have experience with BBW feet post it here! Pics too!
 
Posted by Solomonsheir (Member # 51922) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Fair Adam:
I think part of it is that the net is now saturated with foot fetish content, so traffic is more spread out for all sites.

I think you’re right about that Adam ...makes me regret taking so long to register on here, especially since there are some people who just don’t post anymore that I always wanted to connect with.
 
Posted by AceCorr (Member # 37554) on :
 
I think people are running out of things to say, that's why things are slowing down a bit.
 
Posted by Captain Morgan (Member # 29917) on :
 
The forum has changed since I became a member. it seemed to be more of a social "community", now people don't even check to read their personal messages and If they do the majority of the time they do not bother to message you back.
Like all things in life..change happens...Just the way it is.
 
Posted by nodes (Member # 29542) on :
 
I visit this website everyday and I have been a loyal member ever since I happened upon it. I also try to contribute regularly.

Everyone should post more often, it would make for a more vibrant forum.
 
Posted by Feetosopher (Member # 45909) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Fair Adam:
I think part of it is that the net is now saturated with foot fetish content, so traffic is more spread out for all sites.

Ultra-sad, but ultra-true. There are kazillions of bare feet everywhere on the net nowadays.
When I started surfing the web for barefoot women's pictures in the late 1990s,
us "foot guys" were among the ultimate weirdos.. now foot fetish has gone mainstream.
Every Plain Jane posting shitty cellphone pics of her peds has fans cheering her like she was a Hollywood star..
for the first weeks.. and then they get bored.. and move to another one.
Has this feet overload made us "happier"? I doubt.. as that 80s pop tune said.. "we don't talk anymore".
 
Posted by Chevezzz (Member # 49042) on :
 
The traffic went to Instagram and Facebook. I have an IG account and follow a few foot models just for free pics. Some of the models have thousands of followers and these moronic guys actually send the models Amazon and Visa gift cards. They don't have a snowball's chance in Hell of ever meeting these women. Most of the models even state that they're not available for sessions or meetups.

I don't understand why the traffic stays heavy over there. It's a waste of time if you're a guy who's really trying to score some foot action with a chick.

One thing I've noticed about most guys here is that we own sites, C4S stores and really have lots of "hands on experience" with women's feet. So it makes sense that there's less activity here.
 
Posted by Adam X (Member # 2872) on :
 
I was other there now I'm here, what sorcery is this!?
 
Posted by Rider Aldebaran (Member # 38525) on :
 
The message board format is dying. Social media and Reddit are replacing it.
 
Posted by feet lover/chris (Member # 2048) on :
 
The internet is saturated with content , Snapchat , tumblr, YouTube.
 
Posted by Rocky @TheSoleMates (Member # 28971) on :
 
It's sad to say but the forum scene is surely dying. We still have our regulars and I'm sure we'll be around until the last second.
 
Posted by Solomonsheir (Member # 51922) on :
 
The FAQ sections talks about a recent visitor list but I haven’t seen it. I wish there was a way to show when people were online on here ...I have been sending a lot of private messages to people and waiting for them to respond, something I find to be borderline torturous lol
 
Posted by FootLongSub Zero (Member # 19380) on :
 
I used to hang out here alot since the late 90s then registered to the forum in 07, used to come here every day but since I jumped onto instagram that's where my attention switched to about 2-3 years ago. I'm on there every day and I'm currently following 500 profiles 80% foot related so it's constantly refreshing every few minutes so-much-so sometimes I get sick of looking at pretty feet.

I look at Wu's as like an old bar I used to hang out at and and visit every now and then to check up on what's going on and check up on content. If anyone is interested, I've just posted my experience in VR gaming in the gaming section.
 
Posted by Michael Pitt (Member # 47716) on :
 
few reasons

there are better places to find jerkoff material like pornhub, instagram etc

there are only so many times you can talk about the following topics

favorite nail polish color
is foot fetish normal?
how do i tell a girl i like her feet?

also theforum is overly moderated, how ironic a jerkoff forum is the most PC site i know of

patrick says he doesn't want the site to become like the youtube comment section, well youtube is one of the most popular sites on the net so maybe you should allow a little more freedom of speech
 
Posted by Groth (Member # 51956) on :
 
From what I've read so far, this is probably the most lenient Foot Discussion board out there and "under" moderated if anything. It's actually pretty chill minus a couple people.
 
Posted by Michael Pitt (Member # 47716) on :
 
i've been here on and off since 2004

it's the most moderated forum i've ever been on and it got worse than ever last year hence the sticky at the top

a simple disagreement or debate on any other forum is considered an "uncivil flame war" on this forum

if my posts are deleted in this thread it will just prove my point
 
Posted by danfootman (Member # 51973) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Pitt:
few reasons

there are better places to find jerkoff material like pornhub, instagram etc

there are only so many times you can talk about the following topics

favorite nail polish color
is foot fetish normal?
how do i tell a girl i like her feet?

also theforum is overly moderated, how ironic a jerkoff forum is the most PC site i know of

patrick says he doesn't want the site to become like the youtube comment section, well youtube is one of the most popular sites on the net so maybe you should allow a little more freedom of speech

He doesn't want this place turning into a war zone. I don't blame him one bit [Laugh]

[ July 10, 2018, 12:23 AM: Message edited by: danfootman ]
 
Posted by Groth (Member # 51956) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Pitt:
i've been here on and off since 2004

it's the most moderated forum i've ever been on and it got worse than ever last year hence the sticky at the top

a simple disagreement or debate on any other forum is considered an "uncivil flame war" on this forum

if my posts are deleted in this thread it will just prove my point

Try being civil and this won't happen. You shouldn't have to be taught manners on a Foot Fetish forum.
 
Posted by Michael Pitt (Member # 47716) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Groth:
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Pitt:
i've been here on and off since 2004

it's the most moderated forum i've ever been on and it got worse than ever last year hence the sticky at the top

a simple disagreement or debate on any other forum is considered an "uncivil flame war" on this forum

if my posts are deleted in this thread it will just prove my point

Try being civil and this won't happen. You shouldn't have to be taught manners on a Foot Fetish forum.
try not to be a snowflake and you won't have to worry about "manners" on a friggin internet forum guy that has been here for a month
 
Posted by Michael Pitt (Member # 47716) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by danfootman:
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Pitt:
few reasons

there are better places to find jerkoff material like pornhub, instagram etc

there are only so many times you can talk about the following topics

favorite nail polish color
is foot fetish normal?
how do i tell a girl i like her feet?

also theforum is overly moderated, how ironic a jerkoff forum is the most PC site i know of

patrick says he doesn't want the site to become like the youtube comment section, well youtube is one of the most popular sites on the net so maybe you should allow a little more freedom of speech

He doesn't want this place turning into a war zone. I don't blame him one bit [Laugh]
i guess a "warzone" is just people actually having an opinion of their own

might want to rethink that as this thread is pointing out the pending death of this forum
 
Posted by Groth (Member # 51956) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Pitt:
quote:
Originally posted by Groth:
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Pitt:
i've been here on and off since 2004

it's the most moderated forum i've ever been on and it got worse than ever last year hence the sticky at the top

a simple disagreement or debate on any other forum is considered an "uncivil flame war" on this forum

if my posts are deleted in this thread it will just prove my point

Try being civil and this won't happen. You shouldn't have to be taught manners on a Foot Fetish forum.
try not to be a snowflake and you won't have to worry about "manners" on a friggin internet forum guy that has been here for a month
You just not only proved my point, but Dan's point as well. I think the problem can be found and solved by looking inward (or in the mirror) whichever you prefer.
 
Posted by Groth (Member # 51956) on :
 
Civility is the best form of flattery, I agree with the sticky thread by Patrick. Let's just get along and share our common interest.
 
Posted by BareSoles84 (Member # 45910) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Pitt:
guy that has been here for a month

He hasn't been here for only a month. Just the user name has, if you get my drift.

Take note that this individual has posted in the discussion section only to specifically reply to me (pay sessions vs foot models thread), and now apparently you, in an attempt to goad into a trivial back and forth exchange. Also take note in whose threads this person posts in/bumps the most in the content section.

I've already put him on ignore myself, as I prefer to save the IQ points.
 
Posted by FootLongSub Zero (Member # 19380) on :
 
Is it getting hot in here? [Laugh]
 
Posted by Solomonsheir (Member # 51922) on :
 
Ahhh Michael Pitt, I wondered about when you would entertain one of the post i started. I understand the dangers of PC culture and the beauty of freedom of expression, but do you really think that disagreements and discussions with different perspectives can’t be done in a respectful way ? And is it that difficult to recognize the lack common decency? Truth be told I think you’re right ... the forum is over moderated ..the world is, in my opinion. But the over moderation is the reaction and not action that is causing the issues. The real problem is that lack of decency......try reading the thread again ...and again ...and again until you can pinpoint the position in which the thread took a turn from civil disagreement to the beginning of a fight. I attribute that position to the response you made including the term “snowflake” I’ve read your posts for years as a lurker, I know you’re intelligent, that is not a patronizing statement , i sincerely feel that way. I also sincerely feel that you are or will become one of the men who just want to watch the world burn
 
Posted by Michael Pitt (Member # 47716) on :
 
uh thanks, i think...

this is where it turned

"Try being civil and this won't happen. You shouldn't have to be taught manners on a Foot Fetish forum."

what did i say that was "uncivil" before this remark from the "newbie"?

i gave my reasons as to why this forum isn't what it used to be, it's like a 40 year old single woman asking why she doesn't get the male attention she used to get

you can't be honest with her without hurting feelings because the truth hurts, in her case there are younger and better looking options out there, in this forums case there are newer and better options out there whether it's for content or discussion


which gives this forum 2 choices

accept the criticism and adapt to help it grow

take offense to the criticism, pretend the "naysayers" are wrong, stupid, hateful and pretend nothing is wrong even though there is less and less postings as time goes by, and then the site disappears forever

i don't think the customer is always right, but that saying exists for a reason
 
Posted by Groth (Member # 51956) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Pitt:
uh thanks, i think...

this is where it turned

"Try being civil and this won't happen. You shouldn't have to be taught manners on a Foot Fetish forum."

what did i say that was "uncivil" before this remark from the "newbie"?

I was referring "You" as "In General". Sorry for not making myself clear. However my second post stands since you lumped yourself into the "uncivil" category by calling me a "Snowflake" at that point and it was suddenly clear why you think this forum is heavily moderated since you predicted your following posts might be deleted based on pre meditating an argument unnecessarily. That's where I refer back to my (General statement) about manners and civility and agreeing with Patrick on the sticky.
 
Posted by Rocky @TheSoleMates (Member # 28971) on :
 
If you two want to argue so much, take it to private messages or somewhere else. This isn't the place for it. I could have deleted the messages and "overmoderated" but I see no reason to do so if everyone can get along or ignore one another.

On topic, give it another 10 years from now and I'm sure there'll be some new sites that take over the popularity of Facebook, Twitter, etc. The saturation of content we have available at anytime on so many different sites is insane.
 
Posted by BareSoles84 (Member # 45910) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Rocky @TheSoleMates:
give it another 10 years from now and I'm sure there'll be some new sites that take over the popularity of Facebook, Twitter, etc.

Exactly. MySpace was the big thing.....until it wasn't anymore.
 
Posted by danfootman (Member # 51973) on :
 
Well that sure escalated quickly...
 
Posted by Groth (Member # 51956) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Rocky @TheSoleMates:
If you two want to argue so much, take it to private messages or somewhere else. This isn't the place for it. I could have deleted the messages and "overmoderated" but I see no reason to do so if everyone can get along or ignore one another.

I don't see anyone arguing, just someone trying to spark a debate that fizzled before his first post really started. In fact, it was more a slam on the moderation staff than anything, challenging you to delete his posts to prove him right.

One day, hopefully there will be no more "forums" like this anyway and we can all be on equal ground like Social Media and moderate for ourselves by simply blocking someone and never seeing them post ever again. That is brilliant, compared to this format where bias, complacency and emotion seem to be common place if you read Michael's original complaint. Again, civility can cure all this.
 
Posted by Michael Pitt (Member # 47716) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Rocky @TheSoleMates:
If you two want to argue so much, take it to private messages or somewhere else. This isn't the place for it. I could have deleted the messages and "overmoderated" but I see no reason to do so if everyone can get along or ignore one another.

On topic, give it another 10 years from now and I'm sure there'll be some new sites that take over the popularity of Facebook, Twitter, etc. The saturation of content we have available at anytime on so many different sites is insane.

all the mods here say take it to private messages, and then they took away my ability to send private messages LOL

and i know "this isn't the place for it" that was my point this forum can't handle simple disagreements
 
Posted by Michael Pitt (Member # 47716) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Groth:
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Pitt:
uh thanks, i think...

this is where it turned

"Try being civil and this won't happen. You shouldn't have to be taught manners on a Foot Fetish forum."

what did i say that was "uncivil" before this remark from the "newbie"?

I was referring "You" as "In General". Sorry for not making myself clear. However my second post stands since you lumped yourself into the "uncivil" category by calling me a "Snowflake" at that point and it was suddenly clear why you think this forum is heavily moderated since you predicted your following posts might be deleted based on pre meditating an argument unnecessarily. That's where I refer back to my (General statement) about manners and civility and agreeing with Patrick on the sticky.
you were uncivil with your post no matter who you were referring to

don't get me wrong i don't care, just telling you how it is on this forum by definition that was very uncivilized of you greg err.. i mean "groth"

[ July 10, 2018, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: Michael Pitt ]
 
Posted by Groth (Member # 51956) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Pitt:
quote:
Originally posted by Groth:
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Pitt:
uh thanks, i think...

this is where it turned

"Try being civil and this won't happen. You shouldn't have to be taught manners on a Foot Fetish forum."

what did i say that was "uncivil" before this remark from the "newbie"?

I was referring "You" as "In General". Sorry for not making myself clear. However my second post stands since you lumped yourself into the "uncivil" category by calling me a "Snowflake" at that point and it was suddenly clear why you think this forum is heavily moderated since you predicted your following posts might be deleted based on pre meditating an argument unnecessarily. That's where I refer back to my (General statement) about manners and civility and agreeing with Patrick on the sticky.
you were uncivil with your post no matter who you were referring to

don't get me wrong i don't care, just telling you how it is on this forum by definition that was very uncivilized of you

Sorry there's nothing "uncivil" about a blanket statement mentioning that " One shouldn't have to be taught manners on a Foot Fetish forum" (obviously by moderators since they have the power to delete your posts and ban you if need be). That's creating an argument where there is none and I understand Rocky's concern. Patrick's "Be Civil or Be Gone" thread is MUCH more polarizing yet I don't hear complaints about it. This is your thread now, you own the topic. I've been completely civil and completely agree with and honor the moderator's rules. If there's anything else to be said, like they say, send me a private message about it.

[ July 10, 2018, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: Groth ]
 
Posted by Michael Pitt (Member # 47716) on :
 
i can't send or receive private messages
 
Posted by Chris91 (Member # 30100) on :
 
I still lurk here from time to time, but like others have said, Reddit/IG/Discord, etc have become easier outlets to find foot content.

Personally, I rarely post on forums anymore, I much rather have personal intimate conversations via Kik, IG, and/or Discord with people who are in the same kink as I am about girls feet.
 
Posted by footexhibit (Member # 1664) on :
 
I can give you 2 reasons why it has been slow in here.

1. the amount of women on here vs going to another social media site like twitter and instagram where the women will talk to you in private message, post pics, and do live shows.
honorable mention: fetlife (because everyone on the site is extremely kinky!)


2. cell phones! everyone uses the same apps twitter and instagram because they can access them anytime anywhere because they just about always have a cell phone with them.
Wu's does not have an app unfortunately so it can be used so easily by hitting an app on the phone.

I myself even do not post here as much as I used to and I should do it more, no excuses!
 
Posted by Toetapper (Member # 6473) on :
 
A couple of quick thoughts.

I think that Patrick has done a superb job stepping in for Wu. He has ironed out some wrinkles (a few pretty serious ones) and improved the site, as a whole.

I agree that times and preferences change and there is a whole lot more material out there than when I first came here. Nevertheless, I think this site and its format are quite sturdy and should have an audience for some time to come.

Regarding over-moderating, it has always been my policy to say nothing if I can't say it nicely (there is one notable exception that others would have to search). As a result, I don't think that I have ever had a mod issue.

As for myself, I just haven't had the time to devote nor have I had much to say that I thought was worthy of posting.

Here's to ya... [Cheers]
 
Posted by BareSoles84 (Member # 45910) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Fair Adam:
I think part of it is that the net is now saturated with foot fetish content, so traffic is more spread out for all sites.

quote:
Originally posted by Chevezzz:
The traffic went to Instagram and Facebook. I have an IG account and follow a few foot models just for free pics. Some of the models have thousands of followers and these moronic guys actually send the models Amazon and Visa gift cards. They don't have a snowball's chance in Hell of ever meeting these women.

quote:
Originally posted by footexhibit:
the amount of women on here vs going to another social media site like twitter and instagram where the women will talk to you in private message, post pics, and do live shows

quote:
Originally posted by feet lover/chris:
The internet is saturated with content , Snapchat , tumblr, YouTube.

quote:
Originally posted by Michael Pitt:
there are better places to find jerkoff material like pornhub, instagram etc

there are only so many times you can talk about the following topics

favorite nail polish color
is foot fetish normal?
how do i tell a girl i like her feet?

Agree with all of these.

Instagram, YouTube, Twitter, PornHub, etc, are now the places to go for content. I'd say mostly YouTube and Instagram. There are several YouTube channels of guys who do random on the spot encounters with females, YouTuber girls who show their feet, Instagram accounts of guys that do random on the spot encounters with females, girls who flaunt their feet on Instagram for attention, celebrities who post foot selfies on Instagram, YouTube channels of guys that go out and do candid content, etc. Foot fetish I think is becoming a bit more mainstream than it was before, so you can find free quality content on a lot of popular social media outlets.

I also think newer generations of foot guys don't really want to talk about feet but simply just want free content to jerk off to, and the aforementioned sites provide that in abundance. And also as was mentioned, there's only so many times you can keep talking about the same topics regarding feet over and over on foot forums.
 
Posted by MetaFootMan420 (Member # 47778) on :
 
I don't know, when I found Wu years ago youtube was still another primary source of checking out foot related content. Something about this community attracted me in a different way and I've not left it checking in now and again, and a short stint of actually uploading content. Its true "there's so many times you can keep talking about the same topics..." but it's also true that you can only breathe so many times before it's just a normal thing you do until the day you die. Most of us have an interest for life and there can always be new experiences that deepen or satisfy you. It may also be true newer generations of foot people don't want to talk about it, yet. Usually when you are younger things are new and your in it but then you reflect and search for insight which is where some of the more experienced can come in with guidance or entertainment at least. I'm 27 by the way.
 
Posted by BareSoles84 (Member # 45910) on :
 
Inspiration of air is a normal thing you do because it's something you have to do, otherwise, you die. You don't have a choice. Talking about the same redundant topics regarding feet on a foot forum isn't something one has to continue to do when it gets boring.

I don't think though it's so much newer generations don't want to talk on forums because they're shy about their fetish. When one joins a forum, that's usually the very reason they join: To discuss an interest of theirs in anonymity with other like minded people that often times, they can't talk about with others in person. I think it's just because many of them are simply looking for self gratification. Like Chevezzz and footexhibit mentioned, they're probably flocking to sites like Instagram because some of the foot models there will talk to you in the comments section of a picture or via private message, and also do live shows. Same with these YouTuber girls who show their feet. They'll post in the comments section of the video, hoping to get a response from the girl. There's actual interaction between them and the females whose feet they're jerking off to and they'd probably rather talk to these girls so they can ask their sexual questions about feet (regardless of many of these guys not having a snowball's chance in hell of ever meeting up with many of these Instagram models like Chevezzz mentioned) as further masturbation fuel, rather than bullshit about their sexual proclivities with other dudes. That's probably why even on here, you'll see a thread of some newly created account asking if there's any females on here who want to talk with him on Kik or something of the like.
 
Posted by Plastercast to thank (Member # 827) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by nodes:
I visit this website everyday and I have been a loyal member ever since I happened upon it. I also try to contribute regularly.

Everyone should post more often, it would make for a more vibrant forum.

Your right there we should do and I suspect that those people that have suggested how saturated the internet has become with pictures & on some sites video's of women's feet, have hit the nail on the head however we all need to try and spend a bit more time on here than some of us(myself included), have done in recent months because we can all relate to each other so well on this message board as we are all in the sort of boat & last but not least this is the forum that was stared up especialy for us and if want it to remin on the internet then we all need to use it more often that is for sure!
 
Posted by Toby Wood (Member # 52092) on :
 
Sweden, Stockholm.
Vikings, polar bears roaming the streets and blond girls. Only blond girls here.

Edit: Ffs, i missunderstod the question. Shoot me. "Where is everybody?".
*Waves*
Hell-ooooo! Yeah, light traffic indeed it seems.
 
Posted by Sighfeet (Member # 49758) on :
 
i cum here every day [Wink]
 
Posted by coryr (Member # 49869) on :
 
I come here most days, mostly to see updates/pictures/videos from websites I enjoy. I lurked on and off for probably 15 years before I actually signed up. As far as things I care to discuss personally I pretty much exhausted everything. I'd respond to topics from new users though if they've been discussed already.
 
Posted by Plastercast to thank (Member # 827) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Sighfeet:
i cum here every day [Wink]

Yes I will do abd I hope all your robots
 
Posted by tulsafootlover (Member # 2118) on :
 
I haven’t been here in a long time. Just popping in to say hi!!!
 
Posted by coryr (Member # 49869) on :
 
i come on here fairly often mostly to check out pics. not as often as i used to. the discussions seem to have died down quite a bit. if newer members join discussions tend to start up, but i feel like it's been the same people for a while, or a lot have moved on.
 
Posted by Maeva (Member # 53293) on :
 
I'm from France [Smile]

[ October 20, 2021, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: Maeva ]
 
Posted by troycechoyce (Member # 52794) on :
 
I definitely still check especially with COVID lot of good stories have been shared on this forum..I’m from NYS, and I have two questions:
1. Does anyone remember exOticmistress and what happened to her?
2. Does anyone know any foot models in Miami area?
 
Posted by TheSoleMates (Member # 28971) on :
 
Born and raised in New York. Moved so I was in Des Moines Iowa for the longest time. Now I’m in Joplin Missouri until I save up money to move to Arizona.
 
Posted by solefull00 (Member # 44401) on :
 
i still come here, been frequenting since about 2003/2004. I miss the older days. the community has certainly exploded onto YT, IG, and FB.
 
Posted by Lars (Member # 1461) on :
 
Copenhagen Denmark [Smile]
 
Posted by Eliza Durden (Member # 22995) on :
 
I have been gone for about a decade but I am back!
 
Posted by Bigbbwfeet (Member # 51598) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Eliza Durden:
I have been gone for about a decade but I am back!

Oh, we didnt even notice. Welcome back.
 
Posted by Eliza Durden (Member # 22995) on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Bigbbwfeet:
quote:
Originally posted by Eliza Durden:
I have been gone for about a decade but I am back!

Oh, we didnt even notice. Welcome back.
I was a contributing model here once upon a time.
http://www.wusfeetlinks.com/elizadurden.html
 


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