I dont talk about this too much online, but it said I could "speak my mind", so I thought what the hell! One of the problems with America today is that we have a multi-billionare for a president. Also a HUGE player in the oil business. Thats why he became president and thats why we are in Iraq, to get control of the oil they have. We are all paying to support this war by losing loved ones, paying ungodly taxes, and finally at the gas pumps. All so the President and all his already filthy rich buddies, can get even richer. I have not lost a loved one yet in the war. My taxes,(just out of my paycheck and just federal tax), is more than my house payment per month. My payment, by the way, is about $875.00 per month. I pay more than that in federal taxes alone per month. And we all have paid dearly at the gas pumps....somehow always on a holiday....when the big oil guys know people will want to travel alot!
I am only writing all this as a suggestion that maybe the Presidential cantidate that has 100 million dollars into thier campaign, to get a job that pays about $400 grand a year, might be doing it for other reasons; And not all of them good reasons. Would you spend 1 million dollars to have your resume prepared, for a job that payed 30 grand a year? Thanks alot for reading. Im sure there are people out there that dont agree with me but I bet there are more that agree than disagree.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
I agree, this country is in serious trouble if can't elect a competant person the next time around, then again..it'll still be years before everything is back on track again economically like it was in the 90's.At least big brother hasn't outlawed great foot sites yet like Wu's so we can still share our love for female feet!Thank God for that.
Posted by lambskin (Member # 1542) on :
I'm not saying that our current president is great, but I just wanted to point out that the current tax rates are less than they were 7 years ago. So when you complain about high taxes they were worse. Now prices at the pump.....that's obviously a different issue.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
Tax Rates are low now, but what happens when we have to pay for this "war" after W is gone? The Dems will have to do something and then they will get blamed for raising taxes but we have to pay for the debt and deficit somehow..sigh..circle of BS is right.
Posted by ozkar (Member # 13264) on :
As much as it sucks for the average person who cares enough to do anything, societies tend to get the government they deserve...especially in a democracy.
I can't begin to estimate the number of people I've talked to that feel that we should "let politicians do their job" or that "they know better than us". This attitude is the epitome of irresponsibility and about as anti American as it gets. We live in a self ruling country where we are to direct our politicians actively in making decisions that reflect our desires. Politician's jobs are indeed important, they are communication channels and secretaries responsible for doing the dirty work on coming up with the implementation scheme for what we the people want done. Hence the term civil servant...not very glorious but very crucial. Politician's aren't supposed to have power, they are supposed to have responsibility. The saying is with great power comes great responsibility, but the reverse statement is not true. With great responsibility comes either doing your job as is expected of you, or a powerful failure to do so. With how most of the country ignores politics after an election it's like we're stuck in a car aimed down some road, the steering wheel's there, but nobody's driving.
People believe you should elect a politician based on their ideals and once that's done hope for the best. That's absolute crap. Elect your politicians based on how well they do what you tell them to!
Posted by higharchlover (Member # 23372) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ozkar: We live in a self ruling country where we are to direct our politicians actively in making decisions that reflect our desires.
I agree with this statement, except the last part. Needs should come before desires. The only people that politicians listen to, and act for, are the filthy rich. Because the filthy rich got them into office to benefit themselves, and screw everyone else. The rich finance almost all politicians campaigns. The reason the rich do this is, when thier politician makes it into office, their politician will do exactly what they want them to. These politicians are only concerned with the desires of the rich, not the needs of the country. Just look at the job situation in this country. Everyday another factory is closing down and moving to China or Mexico. Is that helping America? Or is it helping the owner of a big corporation with less labor costs. NAFTA is a prime example of big business owners buying politicians to allow them to make more money. The funny part of that will be, once all the manufacturing is being done out of the country, who are they going to sell thier stuff to? Most of the people here wont have a job to buy anything! By that time, it will be too late for all of us. I could go on about this forever, but until I have 50 billion dollars to give to a politician or presidential candidate, things are not going to change. Just remember though, Gluttony and Greed are two deadly sins that the leaders of this country simply thrive on!
Posted by ozkar (Member # 13264) on :
That's not quite what I was insinuating with "desires", rather the non-material kind, like the desire to lift restrictions on stem cell research, and to put a deadline on the war. Both instances the majority was in favor of these actions and our servants didn't reflect that.
When the suffering continues it will not the fault of a bad civil servant who decided to violate his contract with us and make a stand based on personal bias. It will be our responsibility, our failure for hiring someone who wouldn't do the one and only thing that they are supposed to do, what we tell them.
That's just the way it is, and yeah I know, I didn't vote for him either...but when you're the boss, it's always your fault when a subordinate fails, and in the US everyone except politicians are supposed to be the boss. If it's not that way, that's our fault too, and our responsibility to fix.
Posted by lambskin (Member # 1542) on :
And yet life goes on in for us here in America. We have giant SUVs with DVD players to pacify our children, big, flat screen HD televisions, boats, homes, multiple wireless devices that allow us to access the internet from anywhere anytime, and I'm not just talking about the rich. I'm talking about the average middle class neighborhood that I live in. People, our system is far from perfect, but we still have it much better than most of the world.
Do you think the poor in India or China have cell phones and televisions? No. I work in a job that deals with many people on welfare and medicaid and yet they have cellphones, the latest bluetooth accessory, and nice clothes. We don't have it that bad.
And if it is so bad, then why the hell is illegal immigration an issue? You don't see Americans running across borders to find better jobs in Mexico and Canada. America is the land of opportunity. My father came here (legally) with nothing but a scholarship and a few bucks and eventually opened a small to medium sized construction company and made a very comfortable life for our family. Not rich, but comfortable. All of the people in this country that whine and cry about how horrible it is and how the rich are getting richer, nobody cares about the middle class, etc, need to look around the world and realize that we live with more comforts, toys, and technology than just about any country.
Oh, and talk about gas prices, they've been paying more than we have in Canada and Britain for years before we were at $3 a gallon. I used to live on the border with Canada and would go over there when their gas was 90 some cents a liter. Well, guess what there's 3.79 liters per gallon or over $3 a gallon. And our dollar is not much more than a Canadian dollar. And speaking of Canada, you want to bitch about your taxes, try saying goodbye to about 40% of your income yearly no matter how much you make (not just the highest bracket as is here in the U.S.) So look around the world, travel a bit....hell, be adventurous and visit a third world country. You'll soon realize that we do have it pretty good despite all the "BS" we put with from our politicians.
[ June 08, 2007, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: lambskin ]
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
Dude..understand, that the so called "Middle Class" that has all those toys and you say "aren't doing so bad"..well..99% are living in a HUGE puddle of debt and most of those things they have are bought on credit cards.Trust me, common sense will prevail here..when it all catches up it'll be poor and rich no in between.If you think there's no problem,you aren't paying attention..period.
Posted by lambskin (Member # 1542) on :
So are you going to blame the debt compiled by these people on the government too? No one wants to take responsibility for their own actions anymore, its always someone else's fault. That's the problem I have with many of the people in this country. Someone drives drunk and kills themselves then it must be the bar's fault, people buy things they can't afford then its the credit card company's and big businesse's fault, someone says they can't afford a $4 co-pay on medications its the drug company's fault (not that same person who drops $8 a day on 2 packs of cigarrettes).....
The middle class people I know in my neighborhood are doing fine. They have good jobs, retirement accounts they contribute to on a monthly basis, etc. And if they aren't doing well then they are doing a hell of a job to hide it. And while there is some truth to your rebuttle I think that 99% is way overestimating that particular problem. You're saying that 99 out of 100 middle class people are living way beyond their means....please.
I'm not defending Bush, the Rebublicans, or any particular politian, I just have a problem with everyone thinking that we have such a horrible government and way of life. If that's the case, why the hell does everyone and their frickin' mothers want to move here? Too many people in this country have become whiney, pessimistic, lazy, and completely unappreciative of what we have. Like I said travel a little and you'll find out that things in the States isn't so bad.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
WHoa Anti-spin Zone..please..just for a minute..you are putting words in my mouth, or rather keys under my finger tips lol.Besides the national debt and deficit being OBVIOUSLY caused by the gov't, It's no-one's fault these middle class people are in debt but themselves because :Credit Cards were available to them and B:They can't afford what they have with their salaries or they wouldn't be "middle class". And YES they hide debt VERY well my friend,I have 3 male friends over 30 years of age who have new trucks,a house,boat,motorcycle and a ton of nice furniture and electronics in the house and they are all average of $15/hour guys that have a champagne taste on a beer budget with close to $100k in debt and you would NEVER know it by their lifestyles.As far as the Gov't, they are out for themselves,the wealthy,and large corporations weather or not you agree or not, it's the truth..and yes this still is {for the moment} a pretty good place to live Posted by F18Hornet (Member # 11172) on :
quote:Originally posted by lambskin: Oh, and talk about gas prices, they've been paying more than we have in Canada and Britain for years before we were at $3 a gallon.
Too right mate. Many of you know I'm English and proud of it, but petrol (gas) prices are really starting to take the piss. I was driving down the M42 Sunday on the way back from Donington Monsters of Rock festival. I had to fill up and the M-way services were charging 101.9p per litre. That's £4.50ish a gallon (nearly $9 ). The minimum wage, for argument's sake, is £6. 75% of that £4.50 is tax, which goes straight to the government, who then waste it.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
At least you folks across the "pond" have universal health care like Canada.I'd rather pay $4-6 gallon and get ANYTHING medically I need for free.
Posted by shawnkemp101 (Member # 20633) on :
no offense yo but aint this a foot fetish forum? Lets keep the politics outside
Posted by footluvrguy (Member # 23285) on :
This is the section called "off topic" is it not?
I agree with higharchlover. I can tell you that many people I know are very upset with the current administration. We all know what game they are playing... But, like sheep... we listen to the not-so-free press and spin doctors... everything from Rush to Hannity... What's the point? All negative.
We don't deserve what the current policy is. And our children and vets will pay a huge price for years to come. Anyone with a smidgen of brain matter can see right through the current president s agenda.
Let's get a a voice of reason in office. Say Ron Paul from Texas? At least he understands "why" we are hated in certain parts of the globe.
Whatever happend to checks and balances? I feel sorry for the next president. So much to clean up... and all the blame.
Have any of you seen the movie "V"? We really aren't that far from that. Perhaps when we have a social and economic wave- then things might turn for the better. Does anyone here realize the economic stranglehold China has on us?
There's just so much more to this debate... I'd rather talk "feet"...
Posted by higharchlover (Member # 23372) on :
quote:Originally posted by shawnkemp101: no offense yo but aint this a foot fetish forum? Lets keep the politics outside
This is the "politics" area of the forum shawnkemp101.
Posted by lambskin (Member # 1542) on :
A couple of points about the idea of universal health care in the United States:
1. F-18 just said that they pay nearly 75% of their income to tax. That's what pays for the "free" health care everyone would have.
2. Fix the tort system for medical malpractice before you even think of providing affordable health care to 300 million people. I've said it before, you can not sue a doctor for every blameless bad outcome or sue health systems for hundreds of millions of dollars and then expect them to provide good and affordable healthcare. It's impossible. That's why they don't have so many scum sucking trial lawyers in countries like Britain and Canada.
[ June 18, 2007, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: lambskin ]
Posted by F18Hornet (Member # 11172) on :
lambskin, I meant that 75% of the gas price goes to the government in the form of tax. Overall, the average tax burden on me, being what is now known in demographic terms as an IPOD (Insecure, Pressured, Overtaxed & Debt-ridden), is nearly 48% . Which means that Income Tax, National Insurance (our medicare), VAT (sales tax), Council Tax (for services like police, fire, local government) and indirect & marginal taxation accounts for nearly half of my gross income. In March this year, the Telegraph ran a story claiming that the tax burden was the highest in history.
Lambskin is right, though, about where the tax goes. Our National Health Service is the largest employer in Europe and accounts for almost £105 billion of our tax take, which is equivalent to nearly 20% of overall tax receipts (see www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/C/8/bud07_chapterc_288.pdf at p.218). In other words, every man, woman and child in the UK pays an AVERAGE of £1,750 per year in tax so that we can have a 'free' health service. And the government spends something like £300 per year on people in my age bracket, 25-35. Truth is, they wasted all the billions they were supposed to have invested by spending it not on beds and hospitals and nursing staff but on inflation-busting pay increases and higher-level management. I don't call that value for money at all. Suddenly, private healthcare doesn't seem such a bad idea after all.
[ July 03, 2007, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: F18Hornet ]
Posted by lambskin (Member # 1542) on :
My apoligies F18, I thought that 75% sounded pretty high for income tax. Your point is still well taken though. Nearly 50% of your gross income goes to your government. Here, our highest tax bracket pays 35% for income tax. http://www.edwardjones.com/cgi/getHTML.cgi?page=/USA/resources/tax/brackets_last_year.html#individuals Most middle class people pay around 15-25%. I can't imagine what the public would do here in the States if there was a sharp, across the board tax increase to the likes of what is paid in the UK. Suddenly the idea of "free" healthcare wouldn't seem so cheap.
Posted by F18Hornet (Member # 11172) on :
No worries Lambskin. I wish my tax rate was as little as yours. Our tax works lie this: National Insurance (11%) on all earnings above £100 per week, + income tax per the table on this page. Whatever is left is then subject to 17.5% Value-added tax. Other indirect taxes (although the government don't call them as such) include:
fuel duty (currently around 50% of the pump price which is nearly £4.40 ($9) a gallon. VAT is payable on this 50% meaning that our fuel tax is equivalent to 59%!
Road Fund Licence (road tax), flat rate of £180 ($360) per year
cigarette duty. 20 smokes costs abour £5.50 ($11). Of this, 60% is tax.
TV licence. Crazy, isn't it? We must by law pay the government £135.50 ($271) per year just to watch TV (but this money funds the BBC)
Alcohol duty. A pint costs £2.90 ($6). Of that, 31% is tax.
Council Tax, which is 'banded' according to the value of your home. It varies from county to county but for me is nearly £2,000 per year.
Inheritance Tax: only applicable to estates valued at over £300,000 (which is most of us now, given that property prices are so high) and payable at a rate of 40% of the value excess of £300,000. So if an estate is valued at £400,000, tax liability would be 40% of &100K
These are just some of the ways our government extrts money from us. As you can see, tax bills suck up an awful lot of my gross income.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
Yeah now tell us what you make per hour...I guarantee it's not an American average wage of $10/hour..you would be homeless at that point with all the taxes and gas prices.
Posted by F18Hornet (Member # 11172) on :
Currently right now here in Canada I am making $9 an hour. In less than 2 weeks I will be making double that! For once in my life I will not have to live from cheque to cheque. Sad that it takes that dollar amount to not live cheque to cheque..but in this day and age $9 an hour doesnt cut it...take into consideration rent,cable/tv/telephone bill, AND then food! Not to mention the taxes that are taken out of my cheque..Every two weeks I get about 500-600$..that is AFTER taxes..BEFORE taxes I make about $750!! So that is about 150 or more taken out right off the bat from my cheque...but starting my new job in two weeks is going to relieve a LOT of money problems! Our Canadian dollar is stronger than ever..currently stronger than the American dollar..first time in 31 years!! That is the talk of the newspaper's these days up here...everyone wanting to go down to the states to shop because of the parity. But yet we still are not seeing the prices drop of imported items...
Posted by chaz36 (Member # 21412) on :
You know what is the greatest thing about this? We have the right to view WU's or anything else we want and to comment and let our thoughts be known on all subjects. Not many places in the world can you do this. It is great to be a United States citizen. Just remember ladies and gentlemen, freedom isn't free.
Posted by Wrinklesguy (Member # 732) on :
Actually Chaz..You can voice your opinion about anywhere on the internet, it has nothing to do with being a citizen of the USA.
Posted by guitardrew (Member # 6635) on :
alright. i want to point out something as an American, ozkar and the person he/she was arguing with on the first page were both right in my opinion, but important to me is what ozkar said about noone taking responsibility in this country. i dont want to offend anyone here and if i do i will immediately stop, we are all footlovers and a lot of nice people, thats why im in here. but i think you can look at the whole history of the world-> america and see the problems we have were a long time coming. lets contrast eastern thought with western thought (just for AN example im not saying that these two groups represent the whole human race), quite simply in religious practices, western trends have always been to personify something outside of human experience that helps and keeps things in order, while eastern practices have mostly taught the importance of self reliance, self responsibility and that in our experience there is an order (not personified) that we have to adhere to not that will adhere to us. the problem as i see it with the western trend has been that people dont take the ultimate responsibility for their actions, and can act dangerously and with little rational thought based on great 'leaps of faith' and so forth, also western traditions have generally been concerned much more with after death then eastern, which have generally been most concerned with the present moment. so of course in western traditions it has been easier for people to act with passion out of grand notions about life and death and the 'human story' or whatever it may be called rather than taking more careful note of the simple reasons that problems might come about in human relations, etc. so when people came from europe to america the whole foundations of this country were built on largely romantic ideas of freedom and naiive assumptions that right was right and wrong was wrong and (this is my opinion and it may be off color for some of you ill give you that) that 'freedom' is this semi- adolescent notion of doing whatever one wants. there has never been emphasis on many types of mental discipline in this country or in the history of western society, so freedom is equated in some ways with going with the mind's every whim and desire. now.... im not saying that i dont love living in america, or that i think a democracy doesnt work, or even that i have much of a strong opinion about this stuff, (i really dont, i just see these things objectively to me), or that the people who came over to america fit the exact descriptions i was talkign about, of course they came over to get away from being controlled by a monarch and have every aspect of their lives controlled, which i think is much worse than anything i can imagine and is only natural human behavior. all i am saying is that the idea of OUR democracy that we dont let change and grow is this emotional and passionate thing that has been taken advantage of throughout our history to now, what has happened with the spirit of capitalism in this country is a classic example of 'you cant have your cake and eat it too, it is a country where it is kind of every man for himself to make a living, open their own business and make as much money as they want, which is great, but if you know people, you know this is gonna produce some real pricks out there who want more and more and more money for themselves, and in our society where no importance is placed on mental discipline, there can be no end to this mentality and these people will do anything to any other people to get want they want, sacrificing people, hurting people. obviously its a sickness. and it is only logical that these people can get into positions of controlling all kinds of aspects of our lives that we dont want them to, because in our society of 'more more more everybody has a chance to make it', people are all too eager to take the payoffs. it all makes perfect sense with history. there is not even a thought now in our country with the average american of whether the latest gadget or material objects= a great life, or a 'better' life than those without it. its like when someone said we have it better than most, our lower class has cell phones and nicer clothes (??) how does that make those people better off than anybody, im sure the value placed on those things makes them much worse off than a poor person who wants less in another country. sorry i just dont agree. anyway im going on a rant now, i guess im basically saying only a couple of things... america's problems in my opinion have been a long time coming, and i believe that the real issues we face today have the most to do with americans' lack of mental discipline. again if this stuff offends people i wont say anything else, but if anybody thinks that me saying stuff like this is anti-american, youve gotta realize that america wouldnt be america without people criticizing it, thats a fact.
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