Voters approve marijuana law change By David Abel, Globe Staff | November 5, 2008 Voters yesterday overwhelmingly approved a ballot initiative to decriminalize possession of small amounts of marijuana, making getting caught with less than an ounce of pot punishable by a civil fine of $100. The change in the law means someone found carrying dozens of joints will no longer be reported to the state's criminal history board.
With about 90 percent of the state's precincts reporting last night, voters favored the Question 2 proposition 65 percent to 35 percent.
"The people were ahead of the politicians on this issue; they recognize and want a more sensible approach to our marijuana policy," said Whitney Taylor, chairwoman of the Committee for Sensible Marijuana Policy, which campaigned for the ballot initiative. "They want to focus our limited law enforcement resources on serious and violent crimes. They recognize under the new law that the punishment will fit the offense."
The proposition will become law 30 days after it is reported to the Governor's Council, which usually meets in late November or early December. But the Legislature could amend or repeal the new law, as they have done with prior initiatives passed by the voters, said Emily LaGrassa, a spokeswoman for Attorney General Martha Coakley.
Opponents of the proposition said they are concerned about the potential consequences of the vote. "The administration is clear in its opposition to the decriminalization of marijuana, and we are concerned about the effects of ballot Question 2's passage," Kevin Burke, secretary of the state's Executive Office of Public Safety and Security, said in a statement.
He would not comment on whether the administration will try to repeal the law, which will require violators younger than 18 to complete a drug awareness program and community service. The fine would increase to as much as $1,000 for those who fail to complete the program.
Proponents of the initiative, who spent about $1 million promoting it, argued the change in the law would maintain the state's existing penalties for growing, trafficking, or driving under the influence of marijuana, while ensuring that those caught with less than an ounce of pot would avoid the taint of a criminal record.
The opponents, who include the governor, attorney general, and district attorneys around the state, argued that decriminalizing marijuana possession would promote drug use and benefit drug dealers at a time when they say marijuana has become more potent. They warned it would increase violence on the streets and safety hazards in the workplace, and cause the number of car crashes to rise as more youths drive under the influence.
In a statement, the Coalition for Safe Streets, which opposed the initiative, blamed the loss on being outspent by supporters of Question 2, which included the billionaire financier George Soros, who spent more than $400,000 in favor of decriminalizing marijuana.
"Now these pro-drug special interests will move on to another state as part of their plan to inflict a radical drug-legalization agenda on as many communities as possible," said the statement.
The Rev. Bruce Wall, pastor of Global Ministries Christian Church in Dorchester, was among several prominent black ministers in Boston who called on fellow clergy to oppose the initiative.
"I guess there are a lot of people smoking the stuff, and they don't see what we see," Wall said.
The initiative's success last night sparked loud cheers from supporters gathered at the Silvertone Bar & Grill in downtown.
"I think this points to how our Legislature is unwilling to represent their constituents on these issues," said Bill Downing, president of the Massachusetts Cannabis Reform Coalition.
Posted by bison4me (Member # 21530) on :
Senator Barney Frank is trying propose a bill that will similarly do this nationwide. It makes sense that this was in Mass. his home state.
I think you walk a slippery slope once you start condoning illegal behavior, but on the flip side, enforcing petty crimes cost the taxpayers millions that could be used towards other things.
Posted by sofatater (Member # 4209) on :
Pot was initially made illegal through a bullshit move by the government in the first place! A lot of lives have been made miserable as a consequence of that bullshit!
Nobody has ever died of a pot overdose, while millions have died due to alcohol.
Go Senator Frank!! Posted by Salvy_Mic (Member # 13384) on :
Boston, here I come.
Posted by Salvy_Mic (Member # 13384) on :
Outlaw cigarettes, and we're looking at the next gangster era of prohibition.
Posted by sofatater (Member # 4209) on :
quote:Originally posted by footgirl0226: It should be illegal. So should cigarettes.
Cigarettes I can understand because they do kill thousands each year. (although doing so would cause the same problems as prohibition. As mentioned by Salvy_Mic.
But why marijuana? It's not addictive, does NOT lead to harder drugs, and no one had ever died from a pot overdose. It's much safer than booze.
Posted by Vanderfeet (Member # 8733) on :
everything that's even remotely bad for you should be illegal. fast food should be illegal. in fact, the government should design nutritional "replacement" pills that replace actual food so they could strictly regulate absolutely everything that goes into our bodies.
Posted by Second Timer (Member # 21660) on :
The last thing I want are more potheads driving on our roadways next to me and my family.
Posted by Mr.Papers (Member # 3205) on :
quote:Originally posted by sofatater:
quote:Originally posted by footgirl0226: It should be illegal. So should cigarettes.
Cigarettes I can understand because they do kill thousands each year. (although doing so would cause the same problems as prohibition. As mentioned by Salvy_Mic.
But why marijuana? It's not addictive, does NOT lead to harder drugs, and no one had ever died from a pot overdose. It's much safer than booze.
I used to be a former pot head and I can say is really is the gateway drug. Although, I have not tried any other "drug" other than mary I have seen a lot of friends venturing into different drugs ending up in bad places.
Personally I would love to see mary jane legal in this country but I doubt it. Posted by scarlet (Member # 2117) on :
I find amusement in all the people who think this is a step in legalizing marijuana. The only reason the state shot for this is for money. As a state, why would you want to spend the money to put people in jail when you could make money by fining them instead?
Posted by Toetapper (Member # 6473) on :
Some very important points have been made here; honestly, I have never been able to make up my mind on the matter and haven't found a conclusion that balances the pros & cons.
There are a couple of notable errors in the above replies, however.
1)There are deaths directly attributable to marijuana - even on the first exposure. THC and some other chemicals found in pot act on a number of our organs, chief among them is the heart. Many weed enthusiasts will mention that they experience a rise in heart-rate as the drug begins to take effect; for some this effect becomes exaggerated and kicks the heart into overdrive and a heart attack ensues. Most, if not all, ER's will test for cannibinoids, among other things in a blood test, when such a case arises.
Moreover, damage to the lungs, liver, and brain can be significant. One must smoke a lot of packs of cigarettes to coat the lungs as thickly as a single joint. Though the lungs and liver can make a recovery of sorts, the brain damage is irreversible and has been medically established since the mid-seventies (I was one of the students doing the research of studies of physical changes in the brain and a pot-smoker at the time).
Bottom line: "No one ever died of a pot overdose" is, at best, a naive myth; at worst, malicious propoganda.
2)Mona (sorry to single you out), what little vice do you have that you are willing to maintain once it is taxed? Some 80% of the cost of a pack of cigarettes goes to the government as tax. Believe me, if cigarettes are outlawed the government (local, state, and federal) will be looking for that revenue elsewhere...and they will be looking at you. Smokers pay for a lot of what you think is "free".
Just some notions that nearly became diatribe.
Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :
quote:Originally posted by Toetapper: There are a couple of notable errors in the above replies, however.
1)There are deaths directly attributable to marijuana - even on the first exposure.
WRONG
quote: THC and some other chemicals found in pot act on a number of our organs, chief among them is the heart. Many weed enthusiasts will mention that they experience a rise in heart-rate as the drug begins to take effect; for some this effect becomes exaggerated and kicks the heart into overdrive and a heart attack ensues.
Never happened in the history of pot.
quote: Most, if not all, ER's will test for cannibinoids, among other things in a blood test, when such a case arises.
It has never been linked directly to death (not counting loss of control of a vehicle or falling off a balcony or whatever other environmental aspects cause it).
quote: Moreover, damage to the lungs, liver, and brain can be significant. One must smoke a lot of packs of cigarettes to coat the lungs as thickly as a single joint.
Very, VERY wrong. Marijuana helps to alleviate the symptoms of asthma for one...doesn't sound like it affects the lungs that negatively...
quote: Bottom line: "No one ever died of a pot overdose" is, at best, a naive myth; at worst, malicious propoganda.
I ask for ONE case where the coroner has definitively stated "consumption of marijuana" as the medical cause of death.
quote: 2)...Some 80% of the cost of a pack of cigarettes goes to the government as tax. Believe me, if cigarettes are outlawed the government (local, state, and federal) will be looking for that revenue elsewhere...and they will be looking at you. Smokers pay for a lot of what you think is "free".
(Cigarettes will NEVER be illegal - trust me, BUT - hypothetically, if they were, yes the governments would recoup their losses by heavily taxing other aspects - common sense tells us this)
Posted by Toetapper (Member # 6473) on :
Ooooh. I knew that I was poking a stick into a hornets' nest when I offered up my thoughts here but I didn't realize that how successful the propaganda has been.
I have little time at this writing, but will take up all the issues individually, as time allows.
Lets start here: "Very, VERY wrong. Marijuana helps to alleviate the symptoms of asthma for one...doesn't sound like it affects the lungs that negatively..."
Treating symptoms is not treating the disease. For example, taking anti-histamines actually prolongs a cold by preventing the nose from running which carries away the affected tissue. It makes you feel better but the affliction persists.
Additionally, it is medically established that the chemical nicotine is beneficial for regulating the heart. Do you, therefore, recommend that people smoke cigarettes (it is the most readily accessible source) to keep their heart healthy? That would certainly keep the tobacco companies in business.
Allow me to re-state that I am not for nor against the use of pot. I simply want the user to be mindful of the consequences of that use. Relax a little Andy-Laa, I would rather calmly debate the matter than come out of the gate shouting.
One other quote before I trundle off to horizontality:
"Never happened in the history of pot."
There is a tome entitled "The History of Pot"? Though his memory might be dubious, I'd like to know the author.
Honest, I'm not trying to pick a fight.
Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :
quote:Originally posted by Toetapper: Honest, I'm not trying to pick a fight.
...it's a debate. A fight is where you irrationally attack someone (verbally or physically).
Got nothing against you at all...I just kinda would like to see definitive evidence to back up your points is all...'cause...I'm guaranteeing you can't back up 80% of what you said...
Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :
quote:Originally posted by Toetapper: Lets start here: "Very, VERY wrong. Marijuana helps to alleviate the symptoms of asthma for one...doesn't sound like it affects the lungs that negatively..."
Treating symptoms is not treating the disease. For example, taking anti-histamines actually prolongs a cold by preventing the nose from running which carries away the affected tissue. It makes you feel better but the affliction persists.
I said it "alleviates the symptoms" - not cures I can, however, counter your implication that it prolongs asthma in any way by quoting a medicine that does with another illness...it doesn't prolong it and it makes inhalers basically unnecessary is all (as in – it is a more long term suppressant than inhalers as you don’t smoke it AFTER (or during) an attack – you smoke it to PREVENT a future attack…). (also helps with glaucoma and cataracts btw )
quote: Additionally, it is medically established that the chemical nicotine is beneficial for regulating the heart. Do you, therefore, recommend that people smoke cigarettes (it is the most readily accessible source) to keep their heart healthy? That would certainly keep the tobacco companies in business.
No. The relevance being…?
quote: Allow me to re-state that I am not for nor against the use of pot. I simply want the user to be mindful of the consequences of that use. Relax a little Andy-Laa, I would rather calmly debate the matter than come out of the gate shouting.
Good…so would I…? (But to do that I need responses from you).
quote: "Never happened in the history of pot."
There is a tome entitled "The History of Pot"? Though his memory might be dubious, I'd like to know the author.
*Gives a reluctant smile* But yeah…it hasn’t, mate…
At least we can agree that feet are attractive, eh? haha
Posted by Eliza Durden (Member # 22995) on :
The tax they could charge on it alone would pull us a good way out of this recession.
Posted by Hal (Member # 3484) on :
quote:Originally posted by Eliza Durden: The tax they could charge on it alone would pull us a good way out of this recession.
I agree. It would be a huge amount of money that the state could make out of this.
-Hal-
Posted by Elvzz (Member # 14178) on :
It should be legalized and taxed regardless - there are other things, too.
Every woman I meet does it - most every model - no one really drinks anymore. Which is prob a good thing.
Wow I just read through all the responses - was this thread started by Bill O Reilly?
Until you've seen someone on chemo and morphine you wouldn't give a shit about minor drugs.
[ March 02, 2009, 01:32 AM: Message edited by: Elvzz ]
Posted by bluetoelover (Member # 14736) on :
This might be a stupid question on my part, but if they were to legalize weed and tax it, how would they go about taxing it? I mean would weed companies pop up and start manufacturing it? That's great if they did but wouldn't people still just grow there own at home without fear of being fined or jailed for possession now because it is legal?
I personally am against weed use. My best friend has now isolated him self from all of our friends due to his pot smoking, he can't pay rent or bills because he spent what ever money he had on weed. Yes this is just one single incident that happened to my friend but just think of how many other friends around the world that this has happened to. I don't buy it for a second that being high as a kite is not the same as being drunk off your ass. The police are trying to implement roadside tests to determine if your high so they can treat it the same as DUI of alcohol.
My post jumped all over the place on this argument I realize but I think I'll just let Andy and Toetapper battle it out Posted by ucflyeah (Member # 32674) on :
i'm not criticizing those who want pot legal, i'm just saying i would vote against it. in my twenties i wanted everything legal and then you have kids, grow up a bit, and realize the dangers.
Posted by Mona (Member # 8351) on :
quote:Originally posted by Elvzz: Wow I just read through all the responses - was this thread started by Bill O Reilly?
It was started by me, and our clipstore donates to NORML annually
I agree with you though, and you will probably have the same reaction to alot of what is posted here.That is why i will link this as related reading Posted by Hal (Member # 3484) on :
quote:our clipstore donates to NORML annually
I´ve never heard of them before but it seems like a good cause
-Hal-
Posted by temp1234 (Member # 33411) on :
I guess by looking at sofatater's avatar he would have that kind of viewpoint and in reply of that-
I've seen the damage something as lowly as pot can do. A relative of mine started on pot at 14, dabbled in harder drugs later but now just has pot. he's mental. ever since he started his mental state has got worse and worse, he even stole my cell phone just to buy some. Another person at my old school was getting high with friends and decided to play chicken on the railtrack and died.
So pot isn't something that makes you invincible like what sofatater thinks. It warps your mind and ANYTHING that can do has the potential to kill. Just like drink driving (it's not the alcohol that directly kills there, it's the lack of concentration and cohesive thinking brought on by it).
Anything that brings on a chemically related change of mental state has the power to become psychologically addictive. That's why games can be addictive, driving fast, excercizing. To say pot isn't addictive is incredibly short sighted.
[ March 05, 2009, 09:59 AM: Message edited by: temp1234 ]
Posted by Mona (Member # 8351) on :
quote: no one had ever died from a pot overdose
To steal from Bill Maher....
If anyone would like to attempt to kill me in this way, i am willing to be a martyr for the cause...
Posted by Fate111 (Member # 2627) on :
Mass. is taking the first step towards this country being like the Netherlands.
After that, Sweden, here we come!
Posted by sofatater (Member # 4209) on :
[QUOTE]Originally posted by temp1234: [QB] I guess by looking at sofatater's avatar he would have that kind of viewpoint and in reply of that-
Just for the record. I started smoking pot when I was 16. It didn't lead me to other drugs. The people I hung out with and circumstances I found myself in led to that. I spent a good number of years involved in all kinds of freelance pharmaceutical research. I only hallucinated when I did LSD and other "psychogenic" drugs. (play chicken with a train?) I suspect that the people you've related to may not have been mentally stable to begin with. I'm 51 years old, I've been around the world 3 times and my I.Q. is 146 (tested 4 months ago my a prospective employer)
You mentioned friends in school so, I have to guess that you would be in your mid twenties at best. You've also probably never smoked any pot either. That's not much experience.
When you get around to picking an avatar, be careful what you pick. Someone might form an opinion about you from it.
If we as a people spent a little less time trying to force our views on each other, we might find that we have more time to fix the other things that need fixin'
Posted by Eliza Durden (Member # 22995) on :
I read that the growers in California offered to bail the state out if they'd decriminalize it there. The state declined the offer...morons!
quote:Originally posted by sofatater: Just for the record. I started smoking pot when I was 16. It didn't lead me to other drugs. The people I hung out with and circumstances I found myself in led to that. I spent a good number of years involved in all kinds of freelance pharmaceutical research. I only hallucinated when I did LSD and other "psychogenic" drugs. (play chicken with a train?) I suspect that the people you've related to may not have been mentally stable to begin with. I'm 51 years old, I've been around the world 3 times and my I.Q. is 146 (tested 4 months ago my a prospective employer)
You mentioned friends in school so, I have to guess that you would be in your mid twenties at best. You've also probably never smoked any pot either. That's not much experience.
When you get around to picking an avatar, be careful what you pick. Someone might form an opinion about you from it.
If we as a people spent a little less time trying to force our views on each other, we might find that we have more time to fix the other things that need fixin'
*Claps* Fucking well said my son!
Posted by Michael P (Member # 1922) on :
all drugs should be legal, i don't use drugs but it's bullshit that we're told what we can and cannot put into our own bodies
Posted by LeDaemon (Member # 198) on :
Speaking of drugs and the legalities. Anyone paying attention to that little ugly drug war going on down in that border town in Mexico? In the past year over 6000 deaths due to the Cartels fighting it out. Mostly their own little armies, but civilians get caught in the crossfire. The Mexican army has been deployed there to keep the peace. They go from 10 murders in that town a day average now to one. In Texas they are preparing National Guard troops in some cities when things spread over the border.
I've never been a fan of pot as most everyone I knew back when I was younger experimented and did lots of other harder stuff. A casual user at a party is not a big deal, but a few folks I know pretty much went the chemical distance for years which is just as being dependent as an alcoholic is to booze. It broke up families, lost jobs, not finishing school, and a couple guys I knew even committed suicide. Yeah, they probably had other problems as well, but not having a chemically enhanced mind and thinking with a clear head probably would've changed lots of outcomes.
Prohibition didn't work, and it obviously doesn't work with pot being illegal. However, even if it was decriminalized I wouldn't use it or want to be around it again.
Posted by Soopaman Lova (Member # 2743) on :
That's why America will never live up to it's motto:"The land of the free" because we are too worried about what the next man is doing. I say we need to install a "Common Sense" law nation wide. I went to California and under thier proposition 215, I was able to work as a trimmer for Medical Marijuana Pateints. Seeing the elder and sick be able to enjoy thier hard work in thier own home made me have more hope for what America could be. I can't stand hypocritical opinonated folks somtime. We all want to banner under freedom, but control what the next man does. I agree we should mind our business, whoop your kids asses, and live your life. Shit... why don't we focus more on family values. It's kids that grow up in abusive and single parent households that turn to gangs, or even bigger things like rapist,serial killers, pedophiles, molesters, school shooters. 95% of the time, it's never marijuana related. Worry about shit that matters, I say. It's 2009 and people are still stuck on stupid.
Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :
quote:Originally posted by Michael P: all drugs should be legal, i don't use drugs but it's bullshit that we're told what we can and cannot put into our own bodies
...yet cigarettes - 2nd (I think) most addictive drug out there...are legal. There are far to many inconsistencies these days - I don't particularly agree with your sentiments - there's just some stupidly dangerous shit that should never have been made (Heroin for one - far to addictive and volitile), but we do need some degree of choice as our human rights are infringed otherwise.
Posted by Michael P (Member # 1922) on :
quote:Originally posted by Andy-Laa:
quote:Originally posted by Michael P: all drugs should be legal, i don't use drugs but it's bullshit that we're told what we can and cannot put into our own bodies
...yet cigarettes - 2nd (I think) most addictive drug out there...are legal. There are far to many inconsistencies these days - I don't particularly agree with your sentiments - there's just some stupidly dangerous shit that should never have been made (Heroin for one - far to addictive and volitile), but we do need some degree of choice as our human rights are infringed otherwise.
if somebody is dumb enough to use heroin, let them
Posted by LeDaemon (Member # 198) on :
quote:Originally posted by Michael P: if somebody is dumb enough to use heroin, let them
Alright, there's the problem with that line of thinking. About 10 years ago there was a young lady that worked for me who had a younger sister that was about 14 years old. Just so happens she fell into a crowd of recreational drug users and she tried heroin and ODed. Luckily she didn't die, but was resesutated and hospitalized. She wasn't a legal adult, just some kid that succumbed to peer pressure worse than a puff on a cigarette. There was a problem in my area a couple of years ago with stuff known around the schoolyards as "Cheese" which was made from heroin and cold medicine. Killed lots of young kids that it was sold to on the schoolground. The "anything goes" way of thinking just doesn't make sense to me when you think of kids. The youngest reported was a 4th grader all the way up to high schoolers.
Posted by Michael P (Member # 1922) on :
quote:Originally posted by LeDaemon:
quote:Originally posted by Michael P: if somebody is dumb enough to use heroin, let them
Alright, there's the problem with that line of thinking. About 10 years ago there was a young lady that worked for me who had a younger sister that was about 14 years old. Just so happens she fell into a crowd of recreational drug users and she tried heroin and ODed. Luckily she didn't die, but was resesutated and hospitalized. She wasn't a legal adult, just some kid that succumbed to peer pressure worse than a puff on a cigarette. There was a problem in my area a couple of years ago with stuff known around the schoolyards as "Cheese" which was made from heroin and cold medicine. Killed lots of young kids that it was sold to on the schoolground. The "anything goes" way of thinking just doesn't make sense to me when you think of kids. The youngest reported was a 4th grader all the way up to high schoolers.
put an age requirement on drugs like there is one for alcohol and cigarettes, get the rec drugs from a pharmacist
Posted by sofatater (Member # 4209) on :
And finally: The Mexican President told President Obama that he should take a close look at legalizing marijuana. Most of the money going to Mexican cartels comes from pot smuggling. just like liquor sales during prohibition. And we all know that history.
Posted by WillJerk4Feet (Member # 21497) on :
If you've noticed before, the powers that be almost always let certain problems get out of control before they jump in and 'save' the people with a 'solution' to the problem. Same with weed.
They've been waiting a long time and now they're finally starting to show the public citizens why weed should be decriminalized/legalized, because of the 'problems' with taxpayer's $ that it creates if it's not. If other 'chemicals/drugs for the brain' like alchohol and ciggies are legal then weed finally will be too, sooner or later. Just give them a little bit more time.
I watched this on CNBC the other night. Good shit. 4 parts.
![[Joint]](graemlins/joint.gif)
![[Cry]](cry.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
)![[Tongue]](tongue.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Thumbs Up]](graemlins/thumbsup.gif)