Like the title sez, which is your favoite 90's grunge scene band?
Posted by footspy (Member # 2112) on :
Never been a fan of grunge music.
Posted by ledaemon (Member # 198) on :
I chose Alice In Chains, although I'd like to say I liked all the others too! Too bad Lane had to do himself in with the heroin. I would have loved to hear some new stuff from them.
Posted by Adam X (Member # 2872) on :
Layne had the best voice of the past ten years, the only people I'd say come remotely(I do remotely since there's only one Layne) are Scooter Ward, Aaron Lewis and Mayard James Kennan.
Cantrell was amazing on the six strings and Kinney/Star or Inez(depeding on the time frame) rounded out the band nicely.
Just one of those bands that you'll never see another like it but tons will try.
Posted by mrmustard (Member # 4563) on :
Without a doubt, Alice in Chains.
Posted by scarlet (Member # 2117) on :
Agreed with the above, Alice in chains.
Posted by Calico Jack (Member # 2299) on :
quote:Originally posted by footspy: Never been a fan of grunge music.
Same here. There are select songs from each of those 4 bands that I thought were okay, but I'm not much of a fan of grunge on the whole so I abstained from participating in the poll. But, for what it's worth, I can at least say that I appreciated the manner in which Alice In Chains used the intertwining vocal harmonies as a staple of their sound.
Calico Jack
Posted by You (Member # 2107) on :
i voted for nirvana but i like all those bands
Posted by Calico Jack (Member # 2299) on :
I asked that question about which of those 4 bands is best to one of my footgal friends yesterday, and she had an interesting answer which involved breaking down their various strengths. She decided that Chris Cornell easily had the best vocals of all of them, and Pearl Jam's Ten was easily a better album on the whole than any of the other bands had released. So from those two pieces of data, she concluded that Nirvana is the best band! hehe Thus, her equation looks something like this:
great Soundgarden vocals + great Pearl Jam album = Nirvana rules!!
I'm not entirely sure I understand the math on that one, but she seemed pretty confident about it and she's got mouthwatering feet so I accepted it gladly.
Calico Jack
Posted by Bondo (Member # 1403) on :
Overall, Alice In Chains is my favorite. Layne's vocal harmonies are hauntingly hypntizing.
Soundgarden comes in a very close second for me. Our band has unanimously decided that if we could have any vocalist in the biz, Chris Cornell would be our top pick. His range and power is awesome! Badmotorfinger rocks!
I have to admit that being a metalhead, grunge bands were my arch nemesis during their big breakthrough and moment in the spotlight. I didn't like the fact that the powerful image and presence of metal performers was being replaced by these dirty homely kids from Seattle (with all due respect, which is actually alot). It took me a while to accept that there was some talented musicians hiding behind the depressing lyrics, heroin and ugly striped shirts.
I never really got into Nirvana or Pearl Jam at all, but AIC and SG really grew on me and stuck.
Bondo
Posted by ledaemon (Member # 198) on :
I dunno Bondo, I really thought those bands were a blessing in the early 90's. Finally hard rock hit the mainstream again. To me there really wasn't much difference in listening to an old Sabbath album than popping in a AIC CD. Both made depressing, drug induced, heavily amplified tuned down crunchin' music. Most of the 80's mainstream metal was a bunch of white wimps with big teased hair in ripped spandex which I could not relate to whatsoever. The bands I liked during that time were considered by most people like diseased subhumans living in a leper colony (Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Iron Maiden). I enjoyed having radio and MTV dominated by the guitar rocking sludge of grunge to the hip-hopin'-booty-shakin'-40-ouncer-rappin' bling-bling bust a cap in yo ass stuff that is mainstream today!
Posted by footspy (Member # 2112) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: I dunno Bondo, I really thought those bands were a blessing in the early 90's. Finally hard rock hit the mainstream again. To me there really wasn't much difference in listening to an old Sabbath album than popping in a AIC CD. Both made depressing, drug induced, heavily amplified tuned down crunchin' music. Most of the 80's mainstream metal was a bunch of white wimps with big teased hair in ripped spandex which I could not relate to whatsoever. The bands I liked during that time were considered by most people like diseased subhumans living in a leper colony (Metallica, Slayer, Megadeth, Iron Maiden). I enjoyed having radio and MTV dominated by the guitar rocking sludge of grunge to the hip-hopin'-booty-shakin'-40-ouncer-rappin' bling-bling bust a cap in yo ass stuff that is mainstream today!
To me grunge always sounded more alternative than metal or even hard rock.
Posted by Bondo (Member # 1403) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: I dunno Bondo, I really thought those bands were a blessing in the early 90's. Finally hard rock hit the mainstream again.
I see where you're coming from where the grunge scene propelled the darker dirtier sound to the front of the mainstream. The Headbangers Ball just didn't seem to be doing a good enough job...lol! (Adam Curry = bad metal representative). I'll agree that Alice In Chains was quite the refreshing replacement for sissy glam hair bands like Poison, Firehouse and Winger.
As far as it being a blessing, I didn't see it that way. At the time, I felt like they were stomping out the fires that metal bands like Metallica and Anthrax were trying to ignite. It was the early 90's when I started playing in a metal band, so I was hoping our band could ride a heavy chunky thrash wave that the metal scene was potentially trying to create.
Looking back, I don't think radio or daytime MTV was ready for heavy metal back then, so grunge was a very successful starting transition to some of the heavier stuff that has made it to the mainstream today.
All in all, today I have absolutely no regrets or harsh feelings to the grunge music scene like I did back then. Albums like AICs "Dirt" and SGs "Badmotorfinger" hold very high respects in my musical opinion. Layne Staley and Chris Cornell are two of my favorite vocalists to this day.
Bondo
Posted by ledaemon (Member # 198) on :
Well Metallica went totally mainstream after the "black" album didn't they? It seemed like you couldn't turn on the radio or MTV without hearing one of those songs played every 20 minutes. BTW, I personally think that album was the start of the end for the music they made that I liked. I never bought another one of their albums after that one.
You mentioned something earlier also about depressing lyrics and drugs with grunge music. I don't think there is single metal album that has uplifting lyrics and anyone in the band that wasn't a junkie or alcoholic.
I used to go to tons of metal shows back in the day. I have never seen an alternative rock show live.
Posted by Calico Jack (Member # 2299) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: Well Metallica went totally mainstream after the "black" album didn't they? It seemed like you couldn't turn on the radio or MTV without hearing one of those songs played every 20 minutes. BTW, I personally think that album was the start of the end for the music they made that I liked.
I agree with the basic sentiment there about Metallica. The only two albums of theirs that I can honestly say that I truly love are Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets. Outside of that 1984-1986 window, I wasn't particularly smitten with anything they did. And Justice for All had some potential, but I can't help but feel that some of the creative production choices they made ultimately did that album in. A little smidgeon of reverb wouldn't have hurt, and if anything it would've helped to cover up Lars Ulrich's sloppy drum playing on that album. I was particularly disappointed because it was produced by Flemming Rasmussen, the same guy who produced the brilliant Master of Puppets album two years earlier. Beyond that album, everything they've done since then has been produced by Bob Rock, and let's just say that I'm not the biggest fan of what that particular meeting of the minds has churned out thus far.
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: I don't think there is single metal album that has uplifting lyrics
I'm sure I could probably cite a number of metal bands if I set my mind to it, but for the moment I'll just stick to one of my personal all-time favorites because they've certainly done their fair share of material that's outright positive & uplifting. I'm talking about Helloween. Sure their early catalog is characterized by all of the usual metal themes (death, destruction, evil, Satan, etc), but their post-1986 catalog is simply laced with optimism. Songs like "I'm Alive", "A Little Time", "Future World", "Eagle Fly Free", "We Got The Right", and a number of others are basically all about seizing the day & living life to the fullest in happiness and freedom. Even the epic two-part "Keeper of the 7 Keys" saga has a very happy ending in which good triumphs over evil. On top of all that, they're absolutely killer musicians who can rock with the very best of them. Musically they've always reminded me of Iron Maiden because their music is very melodic while still being very heavy. Like classic Maiden, Helloween makes maximum facility of the two guitar setup by regularly featuring intricate interwoven harmony solos. Technically, Helloween has the edge on Maiden where the guitars are concerned because the parts are generally much more complicated to play and rely heavily on Kai Hansen & Michael Weikath's classical training. Maiden has the edge when it comes to bass though because there's only one Steve Harris.
Okay, now back to your regularly scheduled Seattle grunge thread.
Calico Jack
Posted by ledaemon (Member # 198) on :
quote:Originally posted by Calico Jack: Okay, now back to your regularly scheduled Seattle grunge thread.
Calico Jack
Naw, since you brought up Helloween I thought I'd chime in again. Ok, I purposely DIDN'T mention them because I was thinking the same thing while typing that last response. I left 'em out just to make my argument sound better!
I saw them live in '88 and had their first few albums up to Keeper II. I dunno what their current output sounds like, but I just loved the stuff they did with the singer from the two Keeper albums.
Posted by Calico Jack (Member # 2299) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: I just loved the stuff they did with the singer from the two Keeper albums.
That singer is Michael Kiske, and his influence in the band could definitely be felt in the new direction that their songwriting took once he got there. He even co-wrote some of the songs on those two Keeper albums. Michael was actually one of the people that Iron Maiden had considered as a potential candidate to replace Bruce Dickinson back when he'd departed the band. They ultimately ended up choosing Blaze Bayley to fill Dickinson's shoes, but I always thought that Kiske would've been a much better choice. Apparently Maiden thought that too, but rumor has it that Kiske turned down the offer to join the ranks of Maiden when approached about it.
Calico Jack
Posted by Bondo (Member # 1403) on :
I totally agree with you on Metallica's watered down Bob Rock crap after "Justice". I was hoping that heavy metal would hit the mainstream instead of Metallica compromising their ability in order to conform to a radio friendly state. I will say, however, that "St Anger" was a cut way above the the other Bob Rock crap. The sound was terrible but the music was more old school and dirty than they've put out in a while. It's still no match for "Master of Puppets" or "Ride the Lightning" though. Those are untouchable classics.
Back to the grunge, I didn't mean to single out grunge bands for their depressing and drug induced lyrics. That's just the stereotype I had in my head. When I think of grunge, I think of Heroin, dirt and flannel shirts. It's just now I have a great deal of respect for the music and writing ability of the flannel wearin' MoFos.
I dug up my old cassette tapes and I'm listening to Alice In Chains "Facelift" right now as I type this. LOVE IT!
Have you seen AIC's "Unplugged" from MTV? I swear, the way they open with "Nutshell" makes the hair in my neck stand up and almost brings a tear to my eye. Freakin' awesome!
Bondo
Posted by ledaemon (Member # 198) on :
Blaze was the flatest most godawful singer that Maiden could have chosen to be the frontman. It is surprising that a band of Maiden's fame couldn't have attracted someone of some ability. They were on a downward plunge during the 90's mind you, but JEEZE! I'm glad Bruce got lured back into the fold with the promise of a regular paycheck!
The AIC unplugged cd is great! I have that one in my collection along with the Nirvana one come to think of it!
Posted by rhbdz17 (Member # 2492) on :
I always hated Pearl Jam. I thought they were so overrated.
I'm surprised that AIC is leading the vote. They were certainly a good band, but a snooze live.
I think Nirvana was clearly the best, but Soundgarden during the Louder than Love and Bad Motorfinger days are hard to beat.
I was the biggest Metallica fan on earth in the early 80's, but I lost the passion during "And Justice For All". They had become too mainstream and their music lost passion. "Ride the Lightning" by Metallica and "Hell Awaits" by Slayer were the two most influential metal albums of the 80s.
Posted by face_pedestal (Member # 3194) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: Most of the 80's mainstream metal was a bunch of white wimps with big teased hair in ripped spandex which I could not relate to whatsoever.
Whoa, hang on a sec! WHITE WIMPS?!? What does race have anything to do with it? Would it have been better if they were black wimps or hispanic wimps? Wimps are wimps.
Also, about the image. I haven't heard you say this but I think it's funny. I often hear people say thinks like "image shouldn't matter", then they immediately jump into how "ridiculous" those 80s glam bands looked. Well if image doesn't matter, then it shouldn't matter how those glam bands looked.
But for the record, I agree. I think image does matter somewhat, and I think those bands did look ridiculous. But actually I think they don't look anymore ridiculous than most of the bands that the mainstream considers "metal" today (i.e. Korn, hatebreed, etc). Also, while I thought 80s glam was lame, I find grunge, and especially nu-metal and metal-core to be even lamer.
Posted by Calico Jack (Member # 2299) on :
quote:Originally posted by face_pedestal: I think image does matter somewhat, and I think those bands did look ridiculous.
On this subject of image, I'd like to tell about one particular instance involving Iron Maiden that's always given me a chuckle. In the 12 Wasted Years biographical Maiden video that was released back in 1988, there's an interview featured with Bruce Dickinson in which he recounts the story of how he came to join Iron Maiden after being asked by manager Rod Smallwood to come down and sing with the band for an audition. Bruce's reply to Rod:
"Look, for a start, don't expect me to get dressed up in all that black leather gear and all that, and cut all my hair off and wear a frilly collar, because I'm not the same as the previous singer. I've got my own ideas about what should happen, and if you don't like it, stuff it."
The very next thing you see on the video is live concert footage of Bruce performing onstage with Maiden in 1982 after having officially gotten the job, and what's he wearing? Black leather gear! What was he wearing during the Somewhere In Time tour? A frilly collar! What does his hair look like today? It's all cut off!
Maybe they should be called Ironic Maiden instead!
Calico Jack
Posted by Bondo (Member # 1403) on :
Image shouldn't matter if the music is good. If the glam bands of the 80's played music I could get into, I'd look past the image. I saw past Motley Crue's sprayed hair, make-up and skin tight leather enough to enjoy some of their older music.
Bondo
Posted by face_pedestal (Member # 3194) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bondo: Image shouldn't matter if the music is good.
I disagree on that. I think the whole package matters. For example some people like a band because they think the vocals are good. Some people like a band because they like the solos. I think the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. I think the overall sound is more important than the individual musicians.
Also, on a larger scale, I think a band's concept is more important than just the sound of some of their songs. Music is the main focus, but I like to see a band PRESENT their music in a manner that is consistent with the aesthetic values of their music. Music is art, and art plays to all the senses, not just one.
I hold the same values true for other artforms as well, film for instance. The Lord of the Rings was a great trilogy. Some might say that it was great because of the script, acting and directing. But those are only parts of the whole. Set designs, wardrobe, and yest the film score all were important. I believe that the film would not have been as great had it not been enhanced by the perferctly composed score from Howard Shore. And without the believable wardrobes, it just all wouldn't have gelled as nicely.
Likewise, when I go to a metal show, I want to see a band that LOOKS like a metal band. To say that the way a band presents itself is not important, I believe is limiting the dynamics of the experience.
Posted by ledaemon (Member # 198) on :
quote:Originally posted by face_pedestal: ]
Whoa, hang on a sec! WHITE WIMPS?!? What does race have anything to do with it? Would it have been better if they were black wimps or hispanic wimps? Wimps are wimps. [/QUOTE]
C'mon, don't get all PC on me talking about metal! Name one of those Nancy boy girly bands sporting lipstick and teased hair that had anything other than a 20 year old skinny white kid in it and I'll take it back! Don't take me too seriously Pedestal. I love to argue behind the safety of a keyboard!
Jack, I have that 12 Wasted Years video too and I caught the Bruce quote in it as totally hilarious. Bruce is pretty much a bonehead and seems to blunder through just about any interview he does. I think he's a great singer and frontman, but his opinions and mouth usually act as his worst enemy.
Posted by face_pedestal (Member # 3194) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon:
quote:Originally posted by face_pedestal: ]
Whoa, hang on a sec! WHITE WIMPS?!? What does race have anything to do with it? Would it have been better if they were black wimps or hispanic wimps? Wimps are wimps.
C'mon, don't get all PC on me talking about metal! Name one of those Nancy boy girly bands sporting lipstick and teased hair that had anything other than a 20 year old skinny white kid in it and I'll take it back! [/QUOTE]
Since when is defending white people PC? Making fun of white people IS PC. Defending them ISN'T.
My point is that whether or not they are all white is irrelevent, so why bring it up?
For example, I could say I hate the NBA because it's mostly overpaid, spoiled, black guys. But I hate it because they are overpaid and spoiled, not because they are black. And to bring up the fact that they are black makes it sound like THAT is one of the reasons I hate it. Otherwise there would be no point in mentioning it. See my point?
Now, I realize you most likely meant nothing by your remark. But I couldn't let it pass. I hear WAY too much white-male bashing everyday, and, well frankly I'm quite tired of it.
Posted by Calico Jack (Member # 2299) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: Jack, I have that 12 Wasted Years video too and I caught the Bruce quote in it as totally hilarious.
Hey Paul, if you liked that one you'll probably also get a kick out of this other one too. There's another old Maiden VHS video out there from 1984 called Behind The Iron Curtain. It's a 4-track compilation of Maiden videos with footage of the band touring on the road in Poland, Hungary and Yugoslavia interspersed in between the songs. One of the segments shows Bruce making an appearance in a local club at night as he mingles with fans and enjoys a drink or two. One of the fans engages him in a discussion about how he (the fan) is very interested in making his own heavy metal music, but would like to play it with a synthesizer. Bruce shakes his head from side to side and replies, "No no, you can't play heavy metal with synthesizers." The fan then replies with conviction, "Yeah, I want!" It's an amusing exchange in and of itself, but perhaps what's most amusing about it is that the conversation took place during the band's World Slavery tour in 1984. The very next album of original material that they released after that was Somewhere in Time in 1986, and what's the very first thing that you hear when the opening title track begins? Yes indeed, a synthesizer! That whole album was drenched in synthesizer accompaniment, as was the next album after that (Seventh Son of a Seventh Son) as well.
Calico Jack
Posted by face_pedestal (Member # 3194) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon:
quote:Originally posted by face_pedestal: ]
Whoa, hang on a sec! WHITE WIMPS?!? What does race have anything to do with it? Would it have been better if they were black wimps or hispanic wimps? Wimps are wimps.
C'mon, don't get all PC on me talking about metal! Name one of those Nancy boy girly bands sporting lipstick and teased hair that had anything other than a 20 year old skinny white kid in it and I'll take it back! [/QUOTE]
I know I already replied to this, but I was rushed . Now I have a few minutes to make my point.
You say you'll take it back if I can name one guy who is not white. I don't know why I'm even going to respond to this as it is irrellevent to my point, but I feel challenged. Okay. Slash from Guns n Roses is hispanic. Also, maybe you've never heard of a couple of bands by the name of Loudness or EZO, both of which are totally glam and both of which had all Japanese members.
But even if your comment WERE true that ALL of the guys are skinny white guys. So what? My point is not just whether it's true, but whether it's RELEVANT.
For example, there are many other TRUE statements you could say about those 80s glam bands but wouldn't because they are not relevent. Here's one: All the glam bands had long hair. True, yes, but relevent, no. Here's another one that is blatantly obvious: They all have drummers. Yes, it's true, they all DO have drummers, but since it's not relevent, why would you point it out? Also, none, or very few of them were balding. Of course, it's not relevent.
If you were to say that you hate all those glam bands with full heads of long hair and drummers it may be FACTUALLY true, but it would sound like you would be much happier if they were bald and didn't have drummers.
So the fact that they are white is either relevant, or not relavent. If it isn't relavent it shouldn't be mentioned for the same reason other non-relevent facts shouldn't be mentioned. If on the other hand the fact that they are white IS relevent to why you don't like them, then that implies that you have a problem with white people (even if you ARE white). I'm just curious which one it is.
Earlier you had made a negative remark regarding hip-hop. I bring this up because, while ripping on glam bands you felt that it was important to point out that they are just "white wimps", yet when ripping on hip-hop you failed to point out the obvoius regarding race. Well over 90% of hip-hop is African-American, yet you didn't say something like "for the most part rap is just a bunch of dumb black people". It would have sounded racially charged, but it would have been the equivilent to what you said regarding glam. If you were so anti-P.C. then you wouldn't have had a problem saying that.
Whew!! I feel better after getting that off my chest. Posted by ledaemon (Member # 198) on :
Face Pedastel, get a little puppy and name it "Life." Then you will have a life! I say this because I'm really a 300 pound black man with a score to settle with whitey! My avatar is really just of some white wimp boy whose picture I snapped before I capped his scrawny ass...dawg!
And on to CJ's reply...
I've saw that Maiden behind the Iron Curtain on MTV when it was first released back in '85 or so before Live After Death came out. I remember the funniest thing about the Polish synth dude was he kept mispronouncing their name calling them E-ron Maiden. At least if memory serves me right.
Have you picked up the video collection of all their vids from '80 to 2001??? They were never real good at videos and many of them seem so visually silly and dated even though the music does hold up. One interesting thing on the "Can I Play With Madness" video is that the teacher in the video is played by none other than Monty Python's Graham Chapman. Of course I'm sure you already knew this!
Posted by Calico Jack (Member # 2299) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: Have you picked up the video collection of all their vids from '80 to 2001???
Nah, I never got around to picking that one up because I pretty much stopped collecting Maiden stuff in 1991, so my last official purchase of theirs was the No Prayer for the Dying album. Don't get me wrong, I still think that they've recorded some strong material after that point ("The Wicker Man" rules, for instance), but overall I guess my basic gripe is that their music largely became a recycled carbon copy of itself and they never really hit the same creative heights again that they'd hit in the mid-1980s.
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: They were never real good at videos and many of them seem so visually silly and dated even though the music does hold up.
Agreed. Yeah, I knew about Graham Chapman's appearance as the madman in Can I Play with Madness. They probably could've saved a few bucks by just casting Nicko as the madman instead. He did a pretty good job playing the hooded nutjob in the Flight of Icarus video, so it wouldn't have been much of a stretch for him. hehe
Calico Jack
Posted by face_pedestal (Member # 3194) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: Face Pedastel, get a little puppy and name it "Life." Then you will have a life! I say this because I'm really a 300 pound black man with a score to settle with whitey! My avatar is really just of some white wimp boy whose picture I snapped before I capped his scrawny ass...dawg!
Get a life, huh? Would you tell a black civil rights activist like Martin Luther King to get a life when someone puts down blacks? No? Then why tell a white guy like me to get a life for pointing out racially charged remarks?
You’re also dodging the argument. I say that race is ONLY relevant if you like bashing white people. You still haven’t responded this. And the fact that you are yourself white doesn’t excuse this, but actually makes it worse.
The fact that you keep on bringing up white this, white that, white wimps, and white wimp boy seems to reveal a lemming-like mentality you have regarding race. It seems evident that you’ve been brainwashed into thinking that it is cool for white people to put down other white people…. for being WHITE . I NEVER hear Asians say things like, “I don’t like Hong Kong action movies because it only feature scrawny little Asian guys.” Likewise, I NEVER hear black people say “I hate rap because it’s just a bunch of dumb black people”.
I’ve always noticed that when people don't have the facts on their side they resort to personal attacks. After all, it’s much easier to dodge the point than respond to it. This is a perfect example. Rather than responding to my points, you resort to telling me to "get a life". Quite pathetic really, but sadly not surprising. Perhaps you should open your eyes and think for yourself rather than criticizing those who already do so.
Posted by ledaemon (Member # 198) on :
Dude, you need to give it a rest before you blow a gasket! A few 1/2 page long replies over "white wimps and teased hair." Whoo boy! I must have unintentionally hit close to home with that or else it wouldn't have gotten under your skin like that. Here "Life!" Good boy! Sit "Life!"
And back to CJ:
Most of their 90's output was rather crappy with a few gems I suppose. The "Brave New World" CD is probably the best thing they've released since the 80's and "Dance of Death" a close second. They have released a DVD of their early live stuff from the Dianno years through Piece of Mind which I haven't picked up as of yet. That was supported by that ill fated tour they were doing with Ozzfest over the summer.
And speaking back to the original topic of "grunge" which this thread has drifted waaaay off topic from... Does anyone really know of any other so called "grunge" bands aside from the 4 first mentioned above??? I can think of similar type stuff that was out around the same time (Smashing Pumpkins, Stone Temple Pilots) however since they weren't part of the Seattle scene I wouldn't think they'd fall under that classification.
Posted by face_pedestal (Member # 3194) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: Dude, you need to give it a rest before you blow a gasket! A few 1/2 page long replies over "white wimps and teased hair." Whoo boy! I must have unintentionally hit close to home with that or else it wouldn't have gotten under your skin like that. Here "Life!" Good boy! Sit "Life!"
As a matter of fact, you DID hit close to home, because I am a white guy, and I have to put up with white-bashing almost on a daily basis, primarily by brainwashed white lemmings. That's why I take this so seriously.
I also find it funny how you laugh if a white member of this board such as myself gets offended, yet you've been very careful not to offend anyone of any other race. If THAT isn't PC, then I don't know what is.
And, not surprisingly you haven't "taken back" what you said even though I provided you with more than one example of non-white glam bands. Also, not suprisingly, you STILL dodge my point and make personal attacks.
Ignorance is excusable, but DEFIANT ignorance is downright pathetic. If you KNEW you were right, you would defend your position. Dodging the point is a last resort by those that know they are not in the right. So go right ahead and prove that you've lost the argument by telling me yet again that I have no life.
Posted by Style In Play (Member # 8668) on :
i have to agree with ledaemon here and take it a little bit further by saying that using the phrase "white wimps" is totally justified considering ne memeber of these bands in at least every video was completely shirtless displaying just how white and scrawny he was.
ive noticed people who were really black,so black they might even be navy,but usually its when they are displaying thier physique publicly for all to see that i notice these things.therefore no harm done.
back to the thread topic,calico jacks friend was pretty damn on target.pearl jams ten was the best album,alice in chains had the best band.
i dont understand nirvana being grouped with them really other than seattle being a factor.but nirvana was completely power chords and i dont think they sounded anything like the other three.the other three on the other hand did have a similar sound as evidenced by temple of the dog which was basically all of them fucking(musically)
funny enough the only seattle band i really throw into my deck every now and then from that time perid anymore is candlebox
Posted by face_pedestal (Member # 3194) on :
quote:Originally posted by Style In Play: i have to agree with ledaemon here and take it a little bit further by saying that using the phrase "white wimps" is totally justified considering ne memeber of these bands in at least every video was completely shirtless displaying just how white and scrawny he was.
You totally missed the point. Is it acceptable to hate a band because they are white? If not, then it is irrellevent to point out the fact that they are white. If you think it IS acceptable to hate a band because they are white, then you are racist. Simple as that.
Posted by Calico Jack (Member # 2299) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: Does anyone really know of any other so called "grunge" bands aside from the 4 first mentioned above???
I know that bands like The Melvins, Screaming Trees, Mudhoney, STP, Temple of the Dog, Mother Love Bone, L7, and even Courtney Love's Hole (I just had to say that!) have occasionally been classified as grunge, though I honestly try to not use that label ("grunge") even when referring to the 4 bands we were initially talking about. Bands like Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains are so unlike each other that I really don't think it makes sense to classify them by the same specific label. If people want to call them "Seattle rock bands" instead, that's a broader classification I can live with since it does indeed refer to something that all four share in common. That's where the similarities end for me though.
quote:Originally posted by Style In Play: back to the thread topic,calico jacks friend was pretty damn on target.
I'll be spending the day with her today so I'll be sure and tell her you said that, Style In Play. She always enjoys hearing people tell her that she's right about stuff. hehe
Calico Jack
Posted by ledaemon (Member # 198) on :
Sorry Pedastel, I haven't actually read through most of your rants but kind of skimmed through some of them and replied just enough to keep you up to the boiling point where the safety valve keeps you from exploding. I hear the whistling of the tea kettle now come to think of it!
I don't think anyone here ever said they hated a band because they were white. I think I called the glam boy's white wimps in teased hair and spandex mainly because all of those guys were!
I guess its troubling for you because you are probably still dancing around in front of the mirror in your parents house playing air guitar with a tennis racket while listening to Poison on the turntable with your hair teased, and a bandana around your leg with your slashed spandex dungarees. Tell me it isn't so!
Some of the tough guy bands that'll rock your world!!!! HAW HAW HAW...
I think this needs to continue on a new thread. Now things are getting more fun! A Glam Metal thread coming soon to a forum near you! Posted by ledaemon (Member # 198) on :
quote:Originally posted by Calico Jack:
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: Does anyone really know of any other so called "grunge" bands aside from the 4 first mentioned above???
I know that bands like The Melvins, Screaming Trees, Mudhoney, STP, Temple of the Dog, Mother Love Bone, L7, and even Courtney Love's Hole (I just had to say that!) have occasionally been classified as grunge, though I honestly try to not use that label ("grunge") even when referring to the 4 bands we were initially talking about. Bands like Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains are so unlike each other that I really don't think it makes sense to classify them by the same specific label. If people want to call them "Seattle rock bands" instead, that's a broader classification I can live with since it does indeed refer to something that all four share in common. That's where the similarities end for me though.
quote:Originally posted by Style In Play: back to the thread topic,calico jacks friend was pretty damn on target.
I'll be spending the day with her today so I'll be sure and tell her you said that, Style In Play. She always enjoys hearing people tell her that she's right about stuff. hehe
Calico Jack
I remember the Temple of the Dog band's song "Hunger Strike" really well now. My younger brother collected a lot of CDs from those bands cause he was a high school kid when that scene came about into the mainstream. The whole "grunge" classification didn't really make sense to me either since Soundgarden is basically just a metal band, Pearl Jam hard rock, etc.
Seattle is a cool city which I've got to see on the past couple of business trips that have taken me up there. Come to think of it, Seattle was the birthplace of its most famous son too: Jimi Hendrix! One of my main guitar gurus.
Posted by Lou Gojira (Member # 983) on :
Off-topic post, but anyways...
quote: Ignorance is excusable, but DEFIANT ignorance is downright pathetic. If you KNEW you were right, you would defend your position. Dodging the point is a last resort by those that know they are not in the right. So go right ahead and prove that you've lost the argument by telling me yet again that I have no life.
face-pedestal, not only do I agree with your beliefs on race-relations and sympathize like mad, I gotta tell you; ledaemon didn't mean anything by any of it.
You can garner an understanding of a person, I think, by reading their posts long enough. Being as ledaemon has been around here for so long and I've read so many of his posts, I'm willing to wager a serious load of cash that he is as far of a cry from a self-hating white lefty as you could get. I used to work in a mental health facility, staffed, naturally, with social workers. While not all of them were self-hating white leftists, for the most part I felt like I was arm-pit deep in them. As a result, I had plenty of time to study the behavior and attitudes of these strange, already defeated beasts of humanity, and I can say with certainty that ledaemon isn't among their ilk.
Let it slide Bro...ledaemon is good man. Even though he wouldn't approve of my cigar smoking if he were around, he's still cool.
Now, group hugs everybody!
Posted by ledaemon (Member # 198) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lou Gojira: Off-topic post, but anyways...
quote: Ignorance is excusable, but DEFIANT ignorance is downright pathetic. If you KNEW you were right, you would defend your position. Dodging the point is a last resort by those that know they are not in the right. So go right ahead and prove that you've lost the argument by telling me yet again that I have no life.
face-pedestal, not only do I agree with your beliefs on race-relations and sympathize like mad, I gotta tell you; ledaemon didn't mean anything by any of it.
You can garner an understanding of a person, I think, by reading their posts long enough. Being as ledaemon has been around here for so long and I've read so many of his posts, I'm willing to wager a serious load of cash that he is as far of a cry from a self-hating white lefty as you could get. I used to work in a mental health facility, staffed, naturally, with social workers. While not all of them were self-hating white leftists, for the most part I felt like I was arm-pit deep in them. As a result, I had plenty of time to study the behavior and attitudes of these strange, already defeated beasts of humanity, and I can say with certainty that ledaemon isn't among their ilk.
Let it slide Bro...ledaemon is good man. Even though he wouldn't approve of my cigar smoking if he were around, he's still cool.
Now, group hugs everybody!
Well said Lou. I'll smoke to that!
Face Pedestal you can still feel free to attack the anti glam guy's posts if you like! I may even read one all the way through now!
I'm having a bit of fun with this and have nothing personal against you at all. Hell, I'll let you come over and sniff my wife's toes after the thread has run its course! Posted by Lou Gojira (Member # 983) on :
quote: Hell, I'll let you come over and sniff my wife's toes after the thread has run its course!
Hey, fair's fair! If I get into an arguement with you, will you let me come over and do stuff to your wife's feet when it's over? Posted by ledaemon (Member # 198) on :
quote:Originally posted by Lou Gojira:
quote: Hell, I'll let you come over and sniff my wife's toes after the thread has run its course!
Hey, fair's fair! If I get into an arguement with you, will you let me come over and do stuff to your wife's feet when it's over?
No need Lou, here you go. Sorry, but they ain't soiled for you to clean them off! Posted by face_pedestal (Member # 3194) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: Sorry Pedastel, I haven't actually read through most of your rants but kind of skimmed through some of them and replied just enough to keep you up to the boiling point where the safety valve keeps you from exploding. I hear the whistling of the tea kettle now come to think of it!
I don't think anyone here ever said they hated a band because they were white. I think I called the glam boy's white wimps in teased hair and spandex mainly because all of those guys were!
Look, let me make this REAL simple. You claim that glam bands are ridiculous. The fact that they are wimps, have teased hair and wear spandex are relevant to that point. But is the fact that many of them are white RELEVENT?
Posted by Style In Play (Member # 8668) on :
no i didnt miss the point at all face pedestal.i might it pretty clear that i would be justified bringing up thier whiteness because as opposed to grunge flannel shirts,glam boys went around half naked and showed the world just how white they were.when you see that much male skin you tend to bring it up,unless youre into that kinda thing.
Posted by ledaemon (Member # 198) on :
Yup! Posted by face_pedestal (Member # 3194) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: Yup!
At least now we are getting somewhere. You say that you can’t relate to glam because basically it is ridiculous. You then list several things about glam that support your point, such as wimpiness, teased-hair, and spandex. All of these things are relevant because they are in and of themselves ridiculous, and therefore support your claim.
And now you say that being white is also relevant. So please answer this. HOW is being white relevant? How does being white support your claim that glam is ridiculous?
Posted by Bondo (Member # 1403) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: Does anyone really know of any other so called "grunge" bands aside from the 4 first mentioned above???
I like Temple of the Dog also, but they were a mix members from Pearl Jam and Soundgarden. What I find amazing is that the song "Hunger Strike" has never left the radio since it was released.
Hey Calico, if you want to impress your grunge fan foot gal, here are a couple of equations to memorize:
Soundgarden + Pearl Jam = Temple of the Dog Soundgarden + Rage Against the Machine = Audio Slave Chris Cornell + anyone = successful band
Bondo
Posted by Bondo (Member # 1403) on :
Wow, this thread took an interesting twist.
Of the phrase "white wimps", I think the word "wimps" was the derogatory descriptive, not "white". It's not describing all white people as wimps, it's describing that the glam wimps happened to be white. I don't happen to know off hand any "black wimps" in the glam scene. Maybe Milli Vanilli, but that's a totally different story altogether.
STRYPER...you posted a photo of Stryper...LOL!!!
Bondo
Posted by Calico Jack (Member # 2299) on :
LOL, I'm already well aware of those equations but I appreciate the sentiment, Bondo. Thankfully all it took to impress her was a good home-cooked meal and some quality toesucking, though not necessarily in that order.
Calico Jack
Posted by face_pedestal (Member # 3194) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bondo: Wow, this thread took an interesting twist.
Of the phrase "white wimps", I think the word "wimps" was the derogatory descriptive, not "white".
Bondo, The only reason to mention wimps is because it is derogatory. The only reason mentioning teased hair and spandex is because they are derogatory. They add to the point that glam is ridiculous. But if white is NOT derogatory, then it does not back up the point that glam is ridiculous, and is therefore extraneous.
To list the fact that they are white in a list of derogatory descriptions implies by context that being white IS derogatory.
So Bondo, let me ask YOU this. If being white is NOT derogatory, how is it pertinant to the fact that glam is ridiculous.
Posted by ledaemon (Member # 198) on :
Hmmm, maybe this might clarify things. Anyone that was in a glam band that is white is a wimp! Look at any of those pics on the previous thread and tell me that any kindergardener with a tinker toy in hand couldn't beat any of those wimps senseless in a one on one fight!!!
Posted by face_pedestal (Member # 3194) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: Hmmm, maybe this might clarify things. Anyone that was in a glam band that is white is a wimp! Look at any of those pics on the previous thread and tell me that any kindergardener with a tinker toy in hand couldn't beat any of those wimps senseless in a one on one fight!!!
I agree with that. But why do you have to specify "who are white"? Why not just say "Anyone who is in a glam band is a wimp"? For example, Loudness, and EZO are Japanese glam bands. Are they not wimps as well?
What if I were to say "Anyone who is in Rap that THAT IS BLACK is stupid?". That would be the equivalent of "Anyone who is in a glam band WHO IS WHITE is a wimp.
But alas, I think we MAY be getting somehwere...
Posted by Bondo (Member # 1403) on :
I had a whole long reply written out, but I decided to scrap it because it wasn't really worth the long wind. Bottom line for me is that I didn't get offended by the "white wimp" comment. LeDaemon is white, I'm white, no harm no foul as far as I see it.
I'm also Polish. If another Polish person called me a Polack, I wouldn't get offended.
Shoot, I even laugh when Chris Rock calls white people "Cracker-ass crackers". I know what I am, I know what I'm not. If people misjudge, that's their own problem and stupidity.
Bondo
P.S. - Cracker-ass cracker...LOL! <--Still makes me laugh. Posted by face_pedestal (Member # 3194) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bondo: Bottom line for me is that I didn't get offended by the "white wimp" comment. LeDaemon is white, I'm white, no harm no foul as far as I see it.
At least you're now acknowledging that there was indeed a slam against whites, even if it wasn't intended. That was my whole point.
But, while you not have been offended by it, I WAS. I'm all for self depracation. But making fun of ones own race is not the same thing as self depracacation. Self depracation is fine because it doesn't insult anyone else. But, By making fun of an entire race of people, you are making fun of MILLIONS of people. The fact that the person slinging the insult happens to be a member of that goup is irrellevent.
I pointed out earlier that I encounter white-male bashing almost every day, and it's usually by white people. To me this is no less offensive than if it is done by someone who is not white.
Posted by face_pedestal (Member # 3194) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bondo: ded.
Shoot, I even laugh when Chris Rock calls white people "Cracker-ass crackers".
One more thing I have to point out. This is a perfect example of the brainwashed mentality I'm talking about. It seems that much of the younger generation these days LIKE to be insulted for their whiteness. They have been brainwashed by the media to think that whites are ridiculous and therefore deserve to be ridiculed.
I often see white people laugh when someone of another race ridicules white people. But I never see people of other races laugh when their race is so relentlessly disrespected mocked and ridiculed. It only seems to be white people.
That is pretty much the definition of PC - white males making fun of each other, and laughing when others make fun of them. But god forbid they actually stand up for themselves, or (gasp) actually make fun of someone else.
Posted by Bondo (Member # 1403) on :
quote:Originally posted by face_pedestal: At least you're now acknowledging that there was indeed a slam against whites, even if it wasn't intended.
No, I'm not acknowledging that point. If anything, I'm acknowledging the exact opposite. I said I didn't get offended because I personally felt that there was nothing for me to get offended over. It wasn't a slam against anybody by describing them as white.
quote:Originally posted by face_pedestal: This is a perfect example of the brainwashed mentality I'm talking about. It seems that much of the younger generation these days LIKE to be insulted for their whiteness.
Insulted for their whiteness?! First of all, you can't insult me by calling me white. If someone thinks being white is insulting, they're the one with the problem, not me. I get offended by people generalizing me into derogatory stereotypes and categories (all whites are _____, all men are _____, all fetishists are _____, all Americans are _____). To insult me by calling me white just ain't gonna happen.
Second, Chris Rock is a comedian who makes jokes about the flaws he sees in black people as much if not more than he does about white people. He doesn't discriminate, he hates everybody equally...LOL!
Seriously though, I really do understand the point you're making. I just don't agree that LeDaemon's comment was a racial slur against all white people, especially because he's white too.
Bondo
Posted by face_pedestal (Member # 3194) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bondo: Shoot, I even laugh when Chris Rock calls white people "Cracker-ass crackers".
Well, the reason I put in my two cents was to point out that the way "white" was used was in fact derogatory. And if you carefully read all of my posts, I have proved that point. So as far as I'm concerned I'm done with the thread.
However, if you really feel the need to promote racist behavior such as Chris Rock's, then go right ahead.
Perhaps you might even want to start a new thread extolling the "virtues" of racism. I'd be more than happy to debate you on the subject.
Posted by Bondo (Member # 1403) on :
I just think you saw way too much into his comment, and you ran with it way off into an unintended direction.
I am not a racist and I don't promote racism, but I still disagree with you.
**************** BACK TO GRUNGE ****************
I never watched the movie "Singles", which is what pretty much started the explosion of the grunge scene, right? For anyone who has seen it, is it worth going out to the vid store to rent? Or does it suck?
Bondo
Posted by Calico Jack (Member # 2299) on :
quote:Originally posted by Bondo: I never watched the movie "Singles", which is what pretty much started the explosion of the grunge scene, right? For anyone who has seen it, is it worth going out to the vid store to rent? Or does it suck?
One of my footgal friends still thinks that Singles was the best thing since sliced bread. She's been in love with that film since it came out back in 1992. She not only dragged me to see it in the theater back then but she's since subjected me to it on home video more times than I care to recount. Basically put, it's a romantic comedy about six people in their 20s living in Seattle as they try their luck at the dating scene. It's kinda like Sex & The City without all the sexy legs on display. Ok, you may have gathered that I'm not a fan of Singles, but at least it does have the nice soundtrack if you're a fan of Pearl Jam, Soundgarden and Alice in Chains, all three of which appear in the movie as well as in the soundtrack.
Calico Jack
Posted by ledaemon (Member # 198) on :
I saw that movie once when it first came out. I really don't remember anything about it except Matt Dillon in a hippy wig.
Actually Bondo is lying. We both really hate white people. He hates 'em so much he had to marry a beautiful asian girl so that he wouldn't take a chance of another white person being born into this world. Matter of fact I'm going under lots of treatments with a heat lamp to darken my complexion to a nice chocolatey brown and changing my name to Kareem.
Sorry to speak out for you Bondo, but the truth had to come out!
Posted by ilikesoftpeds (Member # 9269) on :
quote:Originally posted by ledaemon: I saw that movie once when it first came out. I really don't remember anything about it except Matt Dillon in a hippy wig.
Actually Bondo is lying. We both really hate white people. He hates 'em so much he had to marry a beautiful asian girl so that he wouldn't take a chance of another white person being born into this world. Matter of fact I'm going under lots of treatments with a heat lamp to darken my complexion to a nice chocolatey brown and changing my name to Kareem.
Sorry to speak out for you Bondo, but the truth had to come out!
Haha you guys are funny. Hey ledaemon, I'll come over and sniff your wife's toes if face_pedestal doesn't take the honor. C'mon face_pedestal, they are just joking around. Besides, I agree with much of what you say....I am a white guy also and notice that stuff. I also think that we have gotten a little too PC in our society. Ledaemon meant it in a joking manner......he, Bondo and sometimes Calico Jack crack me up almost everytime I log on here. Posted by Wing-Washer (Member # 3013) on :
What a thread this has been so far.
Tough question. I like them all, but I had to pick Soundgarden. Alice in Chains is a close second, though.
BTW, what do y'all think about Audioslave? They're no Soundgarden IMO, but I still like most of their music.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Hop]](graemlins/hop.gif)
![[Laugh]](graemlins/laugh.gif)
![[Bow Down]](graemlins/bowdown2.gif)
One of my main guitar gurus.
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Cheers]](graemlins/cheers.gif)
![[Kiss]](graemlins/kiss.gif)
