posted
I wanted to post this here as the subject could get to a political/religious level.
Anybody plan on seeing Mel Gibson's new movie The Passion? From what I understand about it, it's about the last 12 hours of Jesus Christ's life before crucifixion. The Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith are supposedly up in arms over it because they're afraid it'll incite antisemitism.
I'm not sure if this is a publicity stunt for the movie, or a real situation. Either way I know I'm going to see it.
Anybody else plan on seeing this movie?
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posted
Hey Lou great topic. Yes I plan on seeing The Passion. I think its dumb that everyone is up in arms about the movie. If they say that it makes the Jewish community look bad why don't they same the same thing about the Bible. Anyways thats my small opinion on the matter.
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The thing that annoys the hell out of me is the utter hypocrisy of the ADL in this whole matter.
For example, I saw all sorts of films in school portraying white plantation owners whipping black slaves. Of course it happened, of course it's true, and people need to learn about it. The ADL has no qualms of something like this possibly stirring up any anger toward whites.
However, when a movie finally gets accurate about the Bible, and shows how it was Jews who had Jesus crucified, had Jesus tortured, and how they were able to manipulate and pull strings in the Roman government to bring all this about, all of a sudden accuracy is shunned.
If the ADL had any common sense at all, it's painfully obvious that they would know that Christians have Christ-believing Jews to thank for spreading the gospel into Gentile lands (the Apostle Paul anybody?). Just because a movie points the finger were it accurately belongs doesn't mean it's hate-monging.
There's my full 25 cents on the matter.
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posted
I got a best Bro here in town that sent me this article this morning in an e-mail pertaining to this new movie from Mel Gibson that's apparently got some people pretty nervous. Here's the article...
Saturday February 7, 00:56 AM
Church Expert Restates Rules for Passion Portrayal PARIS (Reuters) - As interfaith temperatures rise before Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" film opens, a U.S. Catholic expert recalled on Friday the Vatican's strict rules on depicting a Jewish role in Jesus Christ's death.
Eugene J. Fisher, the Church's top U.S. expert in relations with Jews, said "ancient errors" in interpreting the Gospels had given rise to the "unjust and unjustified view" that Jews were collectively responsible for the crucifixion.
He did not directly mention The Passion, which U.S. Jewish leaders have loudly denounced as a damaging film portraying Jews as Christ-killers, but the timing and tone of his article in the U.S. Jesuit weekly America made the link clear.
Fisher also said the American bishops would stress this message by issuing a book of official Catholic guidelines about portraying Christ's death just before Ash Wednesday, February 25 -- the day Gibson's film is to be released.
"It is impossible to overstate the importance of the church's call to Catholic preachers and teachers to exercise an 'overriding preoccupation' with getting the Gospel accounts of Jesus's arrest, Passion and death just right," he wrote.
"Both Christians and Jews involved in (interreligious) dialogue rightly understand that removing once and for all the ancient charge of 'deicide' is the litmus test of the integrity of all our efforts."
Catholics involved in dialogue with Jews have said privately that Gibson's film was complicating their work because of its apparently harsh depiction of Jews. "I hope it all blows over quickly," one Midwestern priest told Reuters.
Jewish leaders who have seen the latest version of the film say it depicts Jews as sinister and includes a line from Matthew -- "His blood be on us and our children" -- which has been used for centuries to blame Jews for Christ's death.
Rabbi Marvin Hier, founder of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles, said last month the film made Jews look evil and sinister "like dark-eyed Rasputins."
Fisher said Church guidelines set down that any depiction of Christ's Passion must stress the Christian teaching that Jesus died for mankind's sins and not because of "the particular Jews or Romans who were historically involved."
Passion plays must put the story in context because the four Gospels differ in style and substance. "It is not enough simply to say that a given passage is 'in the Bible'," he said. Gibson has said his screenplay was based faithfully on the Gospels.
"The presentation of Judaism must be nuanced," Fisher wrote. "Positive images of Jews and Judaism from Scriptures should be as or more plentiful than negative ones."
Folks, this forum is here for us to speak our minds, and that's what I'm going to do.
For years and years the thoroughly Jewish owned Hollywood has not hesitated in portraying white Southerners as inbred redneck racists, or inner city blacks as violent, ignorant and thuggish drug dealers. Now that the tide has turned a bit, and they're getting a taste of their own medicine, they're trying like hell to shoot this movie down. On top of it, the Catholics are duped into following along.
I'm not saying antisemitism is right, but Jewish movie producers find it easy to risk inciting anger toward blacks, whites, and pretty much any other race on the planet. If they're "just movies", why are Jewish leaders so nervous all of a sudden?
Folks, I don't care where you stand on this, or if you're even religious to begin with. If you value freedom of speech, TRUE freedom of speech, make it a point to go see this movie. Cross a picket line if you have to, pay the evening prices if you must, but see this movie.
A message has to be driven home to the big wig movie producers that if any form of entertainment is to truly thrive and nurture in this society, it can and should march on any and all party lines, not just the ones they deem appropriate. If we're all adults, and capable of making up our own minds, then allow us to do so and stop trying to force the world's views into a politically correct pseudo-reality!
Thanks, -Lou-
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I have to say that I am definitly goig to see that movie. The remarks and big todos are absolutly ridiculous. Why can't they just drop it and let the movie be just like every other movie. The antisemitic ordeal. Hahaha that's so stupid. I have to agree with what was said earlier. They would have to contest the Bilble itself. Oh well that's what I have to say On the side I have to say its kind of ironic talking about this subject on a porn related site. Lol
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quote:Originally posted by absolutefootlover: I have to say that I am definitly goig to see that movie. The remarks and big todos are absolutly ridiculous. Why can't they just drop it and let the movie be just like every other movie. The antisemitic ordeal. Hahaha that's so stupid. I have to agree with what was said earlier. They would have to contest the Bilble itself. Oh well that's what I have to say On the side I have to say its kind of ironic talking about this subject on a porn related site. Lol
Well, after seeing the movie myself last Friday night, I'll say this: That movie was about as inflamatory to Jews as it would be to eskimoes, pygmies, Hindu's, and Ainu. In other words, it wasn't inflamatory or antisemitic at all. There were several Jewish characters in the movie that were sympathetic to Jesus, and there were even some Jewish religious leaders walked out of the court because they wouldn't go along with the ones who wanted to crucify Him.
I think ol' Abe "Jackass" Foxman of the ADL unknowingly provided Gibson with more publicity than money could ever hope to buy for that movie. Whatever his real underlying intent on shutting that movie down was (he was the one who spear-headed the smeer campaign afterall), it has backfired in the worst degree for him. Considering The Passion of Jesus Christ raked in $125 million in the first five days of it's release, more than any of the Lord of the Rings movies in their first five days of release, which were box office blockbusters as well, I can't help but think of the irony in this whole ordeal.
For instance, here in town, a church group decided they were going to picket a porn shop one Sunday morning. You know what the clerk did when he saw them marching with their signs? He brought out a box of doughnuts and a thermos of coffee, and told the pastor: "You're advertising this place better than I ever could."
When VH1 ran a special called Hate Rock a while back, slamming online record sellers like Resistance and Panzerfaust for selling pro-white music CD's, both Resistance and Panzerfaust had sales practically triple shortly there-after.
See the trend here? And I have to admit, I'm loving it. I love to see cry-babies and whiney-asses, who's only goal in life is to complain and force their will on others, have their best layed plans go against them.
As for this being a porn-type site? Hmmm, not sure there Bro, but that could be a topic for a whole new discussion.
But yeah, go and see the movie. You'll enjoy it in it's own right. It moved me. It made me angry, it made me want to cry, but most importantly it reminded me of what Jesus Christ suffered purely out of His love for humanity. Truth be told, I thought the movie The Gospel of John was better because that was the book of John practically verbatum, and it showed more of Jesus' teachings and miracles along with the crucifixion. I think if any movie is a must-see for everybody, it should be The Gospel of John, but The Passion of Jesus Christ is one to certainly see too.
As usual, sorry if I got on a soap box.
Thanks, -Lou-
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posted
No, wont and havent seen it. not religious at all throughout my entire life and I honestly dont find a movie about somebody being beaten and tortured graphically at all enticing.
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quote:Originally posted by leopardskins: No, wont and havent seen it. not religious at all throughout my entire life and I honestly dont find a movie about somebody being beaten and tortured graphically at all enticing.
I understand your point of view on this leopardskins. I'm a Christian (as if you didn't gather so far), and I found it hard to sit through parts of this movie myself. There were several times I caught myself balling up my fists and wanting to punch out the centurions that just kept up the beatings. But let me tell you, it's more than graphic torture (there are several flashback sequences to Jesus' ministry and other parts of His past), and the movie is really quite rewarding as it comes to an end. (I won't spoil it if somebody's reading this and plan to see it) Reaching the end, though, is an experience. You may not see it the same way since you're not religious yourself, but I have talked to a few atheists and agnostics that saw the movie and they said it really made them think. Whether or not it makes them convert is between them and the Lord.
But Mel Gibson a cunt? How so? I'm not saying you're wrong, as we're all entitled to an opinion, but why do you think he is? I always liked his movies (except for What Women Want, which I thought was a turd), and would KILL to see a new Mad Max movie.
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well he was cool when he did mad max and road warrior then he decided he had a drug and alcahol prob and found god. give me a break. like Eddie Money with his coke habit. I find that lame , sorry.
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quote:Originally posted by leopardskins: well he was cool when he did mad max and road warrior then he decided he had a drug and alcahol prob and found god. give me a break. like Eddie Money with his coke habit. I find that lame , sorry.
That's cool, your opinion and you're entitled.
At least we agree that he was cool in Mad Max and Road Warrior. Those movies are a couple of my all-time faves.
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Imagine that you were raised with no concept of a diety. I mean none. Everything I have found "spiritually", I have found from my own experiences. With that in mind, seeing a movie of a religion makes no sense. Seeing people overcome problems by glomming onto a religion or lifestyle seems absurd, Can you understand my stance?
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quote:Originally posted by leopardskins: Imagine that you were raised with no concept of a diety. I mean none. Everything I have found "spiritually", I have found from my own experiences. With that in mind, seeing a movie of a religion makes no sense. Seeing people overcome problems by glomming onto a religion or lifestyle seems absurd, Can you understand my stance?
I understand your stance, but I don't agree with it. Saying somebody is "glomming" onto a religion to overcome life's probelms is about as absurd as saying "you only look at foot pics because you're to desperate to hook up with women in real-life".
Religion is more than a mind-set. I had a cousin years back, who is a flaming atheist, ask me: "If you weren't raised to go to church, can you honestly say you'd believe in God?"
My answer was this: I take into account all the times I could've turned my back on my Christian beliefs. There were many doors offering a way out, and I'm sure you'll agree that there are plenty of books and web-sites and television shows that can reaffirm the disbelief in God. However, I have stayed a Christian not out of a fear of burning in hell (which for the record, is the wrong reason to be a Christian, IMO) but because it makes sense. To say God isn't there because you never met Him is like saying gravity doesn't exist because we can't see it. We know it's there because it's what binds us to the planet, so likewise I know God is there because all of this coming about out of happenstance takes more a stretch of the imagination than believing in any sort of deity. In particular, I stick with Christianity because it makes sense, and has been historically backed up in secular history books as well.
I don't think people necessarily have to go to church to be religious. I personally have a disdain for organized religion and don't go to church because to me it boils down to somebody else telling me how to interpret the Bible, however if a person feels more at home going to church there's nothing wrong in that.
Like I say, I totally understand your reasons for not wanting to see that movie. All I was saying is that I know some atheists who have seen the movie, and they appreciated it on levels other than the ones I did, that's all. They also said it made them re-evaluate their personal stance on some things. I'm sure this won't apply to everybody, nor should it, because I don't think Gibson made the movie to win over converts. I think he did it with Christians in mind to reinforce exactly what Christ endured FOR us. I know I've been guilty of saying "Jesus died* for us", and yet not know exactly what all that entailed. When you see the details of something, or know the work involved, it makes you understand it and appreciate it better, and that applies to anything in life. If the movie makes some people convert, then that's awesome, but I don't think this was the underlying intent.
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Religion is a tough topic, as well as very personal for most. I have researched many religions and my take so far is this: All religions and philosophies have the same basic rules. Live and let live. They all say it in different ways but the meaning is still the same. The oldest religion that I have studied is Krishna. 5,000 year old sanscrit writings. This is one religion that not only ackglowledges other religions, offers an explanation of all other beliefs, but is meant for the intellectualy stimulated mind to get the answers their soul searches for. Some religions rely on "faith" The Vedic ones answer any and all questions with undeniable truths that can be applied anywhere anytime. One universal philosophy that does not need to change as the population changes. It is has always been logical and sensical. You ask the question, and they have the answer. I play devils advocate as common practice, and I must say that no matter how I tried to disect the philosophy, I could not prove anything wrong or unbelieveable. To say that Religion is a crutch, is far to general a statement. As human, we have always questioned our existence and meaning. It is only normal for some of us to look for meaning in this life, and we only have so many places to get our answers. For us to even exist, means that Einstein was wrong and energy can be created and destroyed. Otherwise, we would not be in existence. Not to long ago we all believed the world was flat! The reality is that part of being human, is to know nothing! We are the only animal on the planet that questions his existnce. Every other animal on this planet knows its role in the system. We are the only ones that had to develop language to try to understand what is going on.
posted
"I understand your stance, but I don't agree with it. Saying somebody is "glomming" onto a religion to overcome life's probelms is about as absurd as saying "you only look at foot pics because you're to desperate to hook up with women in real-life"."
I am glad you understand m, but I dont understand the second part of the statement you have , regarding the foot fetish thing. From what I have seen, people who have gone through chaos, tend to look for system, the people who havbent grapsed onto religion have grabbed onto Veganism, or some other fairly regimented lifestyle to set themselves 'straight' , whatever floats your boat I guess.....
I like Sir Joseph Campbells view ( a religion scholar that died a few years ago) " Religion blocks one from having religious experiences" .
Sorry thats a tangent I suppose. but it is an interesting thought.
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