quote:Originally posted by dbacks: day in day out all i see is Obama is a marxist obama is a socialist,but so far the middle class and the poor have been footing the bill for your Rich Republican @sses for over a decade, you never cry Marxist Socialist when the middle class and poor are getting taxed up the Ass for you to live in luxury.Well get ready to pay your fair share soon Silver Spoon Mouth's
quote:Originally posted by ucflyeah: I created this poll to prove to myself that the sheep voters, lead by their nose to think Osama was going to change everything, are still hanging upside down by their nostrils.
...and they won't admit the mistake they've made.
You should be red-faced and furious over the fact that NOTHING HAS CHANGED when you were promised HOPE & CHANGE.
And if McCain were President, things would be the same if not worse (because he wanted to keep the Iraqi [INVASION] going until the end, when we had no business to even be in Iraq in the first place).
Obama was the better choice of the two of them.
I really love how much the far right loves to complain about things that involves any little thing Obama does. Not that the left is completely innocent (I'm more moderate-liberal than anything).
Its a pretty safe bet that if McCain would have won we wouldn't have had a health care plan rammed down our throats that most did not want and no one read. Also, we wouldn't have had our deficit ballooned with useless stimulus payout monies to Obama's cronies.
On the subject of the far right complaining about everything that Obama does think back to Bush's presidency. Where are the Cindy Sheehans and far left people complaining about everything he did?
Obviously we will never all agree or be happy with who is in office. As I've said here before just look at the facts. Prior to the democratic take over in 2006 oil was less than $50 barrel and unemployment was less than 8%. Coincidence?
Posts: 602 | Registered: Jun 2009
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I'm so glad the US has Obama in office. Gas prices too high? Cry me a river, as if this is the worst thing anyone has ever done and as if the US didn't have cheap fuel prices in the past.
Posts: 219 | Registered: Oct 2010
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quote:Originally posted by kingler: What a terrible set of voting options.
I'm so glad the US has Obama in office. Gas prices too high? Cry me a river, as if this is the worst thing anyone has ever done and as if the US didn't have cheap fuel prices in the past.
You obviously have no idea what's going on economically here do you? lol
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I can't believe you republicans have the nerve to call anyone "sheep". Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity or Bill O'Reilly can tell you ANY lie and you'll believe them. For those of us who are not right wing republicans it makes you look really stupid, because these fuckers will make up anything to make Obama look bad. You guys eat that shit up like it's a Christmas turkey.
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The pollster's premise here is presumptuous. Not all those who had supported Barrack Obama and/or would continue support for him in the future are sheep. Some are easily mislead. Others believe in state-sanctioned theft. The record of Barrack Obama has been no surprise to me. There was enough information beforehand to prevent national political suicide. Voting properly demands at least as much effort as buying a Auto. Posts: 506 | Registered: Apr 2006
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Gas costs way more than what you see at the pump. It is heavily subsidized by the fed. They take the money right out of your paycheck regardless of how much you drive so that they can display a lower price at the pump and fool you into thinking that the oil economy is still a good deal. Gas actually costs about $13-$14 per gallon in the US right now. If the public saw that price we'd no longer tolerate an oil economy and currently powerful corporations (and political donors) would cease to have the support of the public, and most of the federal politicians, republican and democrat, would be out of a job.
I'm not a big fan of Obama now or 2.5 years ago, but given the same options I'd have certainly voted for him again. Or maybe not voted at all.
As for being a "sheep", such a charge carries little weight coming from folks who without even realizing it repeat cable news rhetoric identically to how the messages were pushed on the air and add no original ideas to their arguments. This is not a sole feature of conservative fox news viewers. The same goes with equal weight toward other cable news viewers of other political persuasions.
The way most people choose to think and behave regarding politics does not benefit them, conservative or liberal. It's not left and right. It is about the embedded ruling class and interests and the rest of us (the majority). Our democracy can be considered a failure when property (corporations) literally have more rights than individual citizens. In this way, the US has lords and kings. The corporate and political and media landscape is arranged like a feudal system. Republicans and Democrats feed full force into this paradigm with equal gusto. Conservative and liberal media support it equally, just with different rhetoric in order to get their representative segments of the population to fall in line.
The really sad part is that to divert the attention of the majority from this fact, politicians and media have essentially just divided the majority into two groups and sent them off blaming and attacking each other. The conservative/liberal paradigm is just "divide and conquer" implemented with great success, as illustrated by 100-eps% of political pontification. The most effective way for a minority with some power to deflect attention and energy away from themselves is to take the majority, split it, and preoccupy it by inducing it to fight with itself. The entire socio-political landscape in the US right now is arranged in this way.
quote: Gas costs way more than what you see at the pump. It is heavily subsidized by the fed. They take the money right out of your paycheck regardless of how much you drive so that they can display a lower price at the pump and fool you into thinking that the oil economy is still a good deal. Gas actually costs about $13-$14 per gallon in the US right now.
quote: Gas costs way more than what you see at the pump. It is heavily subsidized by the fed. They take the money right out of your paycheck regardless of how much you drive so that they can display a lower price at the pump and fool you into thinking that the oil economy is still a good deal. Gas actually costs about $13-$14 per gallon in the US right now.
You have any proof of this?
Yes, so do you. It's all easily available. Dig in any of the past 20 years worth of federal budget proposals and look at where your tax money goes, OR check out this report from 1998 which does that for you, enumerating the subsidies which create the artificially low prices at the pump; http://www.icta.org/doc/Real%20Price%20of%20Gasoline.pdf . Summary of relevant figures is on page 39. Keep in mind this was in 1998 and adjust for inflation. Assuming the nominal value of the high/low estimates they get and adjusting for inflation puts us in the ballpark of the figures reported through other reasonable yet less extensive analyses such as this one done by economics by postgraduate economics students conducting research found here; http://www.triplepundit.com/2011/05/increasing-gas-prices-subsidies/
The artificially low price of gas at the pump is probably one of the most successful YET easily discoverable and provable subversions of democracy by corporate interests (who fund both republican and democratic elections way more than us citizens ever could). I am a realist and a pragmatist. What they don't tell you about the invisible hand of the free market is that it's usually passing a fat cash bribe to 99% of the congress critters we've ever had. There are the "rules" of the game and then there are the "Rules" of the game. The "rules" are what we are all made to believe that business follows so that we don't ask questions and so we think we can one day be rich too. The "Rules" are closer to the laws of human nature, they are defined by what kind of power you can get, how you can wield it, and what you can get away with. Following the "Rules" can actually make you rich, so long as no one notices it. When we've got 98% of the country artificially divided and set against itself over non-economic social issues by the corporate conservative press, and the corporate liberal press, no one's watching who wields what power and how they're doing it... and then we think we are paying 3.89 at the pump when we are actually paying closer to 15. If I thought people could manage to discover what's going on with things like this I'd get all activisty about it and try to spread the word and change the world and all of that. But I have little faith in people since we've let our democracy slide farther and farther away for decades upon decades. I'm resigned to be a cynical fuck with a twisted sense of humor, happy to be alive, happy that the water still runs, the internet still works, and that I can comfortably live below my means and bank the excess for when we have no social safety net, and the so called "free" unregulated market continues to screw the little guy who won't have a lick of consumer protection. Maybe if I'm really lucky I'll be able to manipulate politics through lobbying and money subvert democracy to MY benefit. That would be cool. Hedging gold, which is in a bubble created by all of our irrational fears could be a good way to make some money too. That we'll all come to our senses and realize that it's us vs the ruling class, and not left vs right... yeah, I have NO hope for that.
Posts: 639 | Registered: Mar 2006
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Ugh paragraphs please.. Anyway, it's highly unlikely they tell the truth about those subsidies and what the price "shoulda, woulda,coulda" been. Anyone with half a brain knows the media and gov't lies to us. When there's 200 years of sustainable domestic oil in Prudo Bay Alaska alone, there's no reason to concede that it should be "$10/gal" or even "$3.75/gal"...it costs them 50 cents to pull a 55 gallon drum of crude out of the ground up there. Don't believe everything you hear, it's fear mongering and suppressing techniques to keep the masses grateful and not rioting.
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So you're expecting that a crisis that took 10 years to be created to be solved in the presidency of one person? He has promised alot of things but you have to remember that there are plenty of Republicans and Democrats who are actively pushing to stop his proposals. It is a counter intuitive system.
Posts: 51 | Registered: May 2008
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quote:Originally posted by Wrinklesguy: Ugh paragraphs please.. Anyway, it's highly unlikely they tell the truth about those subsidies and what the price "shoulda, woulda,coulda" been. Anyone with half a brain knows the media and gov't lies to us. When there's 200 years of sustainable domestic oil in Prudo Bay Alaska alone, there's no reason to concede that it should be "$10/gal" or even "$3.75/gal"...it costs them 50 cents to pull a 55 gallon drum of crude out of the ground up there. Don't believe everything you hear, it's fear mongering and suppressing techniques to keep the masses grateful and not rioting.
So the problem with the estimated years worth of oil in Alaska idea is that we are bound by our agreements with the rest of the oil producing countries of the world that even DOMESTIC oil we drill here must be competed through the world market. That's right folks, when we drill for oil here, it's not automatically our oil... it gets bid on in the world oil market, and therefore costs exactly as much as if it was extracted in the middle east. This should be common sense. Why would a domestic oil company sell the oil to us for a dollar a gallon when they could sell it in anywhere else for 10? Unless you are suggesting that we enact legislation to subvert the free market economics of oil...
Posts: 639 | Registered: Mar 2006
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We need to do what we can, it's OUR oil..tell the Arabs to go fuck themselves for the lack of better terms. We need to end this conquest for foreign oil somehow, that is a great start.
Green,solar,wind etc power isn't gonna happen ANYTIME soon so let's utilize our own resources.Same thing with our own military, have them gaurd our borders instead of pounding some foreigners heads in. You'd be surprised how fast the economy would turn around and we could become a great nation again.
quote:Originally posted by Wrinklesguy: We need to do what we can, it's OUR oil..tell the Arabs to go fuck themselves for the lack of better terms. We need to end this conquest for foreign oil somehow, that is a great start.
Green,solar,wind etc power isn't gonna happen ANYTIME soon so let's utilize our own resources.Same thing with our own military, have them gaurd our borders instead of pounding some foreigners heads in. You'd be surprised how fast the economy would turn around and we could become a great nation again.
The people who are telling us to drill domestically right now are precisely the people who have the business arrangements which force even US oil to be competed on the open world market. You would essentially have to have the federal government impose a regulation on domestic oil companies disallowing them from exporting. That is not a very pro-business idea, is it not?
As far as "green" technologies, if you removed the subsidies on oil (i.e. the money taken out of your paycheck and used to artificially reduce the price consumers see for oil/gas), nationwide solar and nuclear costs essentially the same as the real price of oil.
And how about this idea... we invented most nuclear and "alternative" energy technologies, how about we get rid of oil subsidies and subsidize process engineering so that we can manufacture these technologies for lower prices. Then we can produce them and sell them to the REST of the world. Export that stuff. Get the global dollars flowing back to the US? That would be pro-business.
Unfortunately because pro-business tactics are stereotypically conservative ideas and 'green energy' is a stereotypically liberal idea, no one will get their heads out of their butts long enough to put them together and turn the US into a producing nation with an export economy again.
Posts: 639 | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:The people who are telling us to drill domestically right now are precisely the people who have the business arrangements which force even US oil to be competed on the open world market. You would essentially have to have the federal government impose a regulation on domestic oil companies disallowing them from exporting. That is not a very pro-business idea, is it not?
Yeah this is stupid policy that is killing us here all for the greed of the U.S. oil companies. Totally unbelievable right?
quote:As far as "green" technologies, if you removed the subsidies on oil (i.e. the money taken out of your paycheck and used to artificially reduce the price consumers see for oil/gas), nationwide solar and nuclear costs essentially the same as the real price of oil.
Yeah because the gov't and private large oil companies would stick their hands in that cookie jar too..I'd rather have oil/gas powered internal combustion engines if all the "alternative" fuels and energy costed the same if given a choice.
quote:And how about this idea... we invented most nuclear and "alternative" energy technologies, how about we get rid of oil subsidies and subsidize process engineering so that we can manufacture these technologies for lower prices. Then we can produce them and sell them to the REST of the world. Export that stuff. Get the global dollars flowing back to the US? That would be pro-business.
EXACTLY...do you hear us Imam Obama? lol
quote: Unfortunately because pro-business tactics are stereotypically conservative ideas and 'green energy' is a stereotypically liberal idea, no one will get their heads out of their butts long enough to put them together and turn the US into a producing nation with an export economy again.
Yeah we need a strong president who can usurp the Powers that Be {somehow without his head getting blown off} and impliment such a project. We can only hope..doesn't look too good right now for this country.
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