quote:Originally posted by solemaster1983: since human's purpose is to exist and live on.
also, did the elisa lam case scare you to believe in the supernatural world.
This question is not clearly framed, at least not in terms of the depth required to answer it. Let me be clear, the clarity issue isn't the fault of the OP, per se, as the background necessary to even begin answering it demands rigorous study. Hopefully, I can do it some justice...
Beginning with the if-then clause in the thread's title:
"[if] the lord doesn't exist and the idea of [dyin'] is bad, then why should we die[?]"
By "[lord]", I'll assume you're speaking in a manner that is most consistent with a Christian-kind (qua Nicene Creed) parlance. If right, then what you also mean to necessitate via this clause is (by extension) 'The Divine' or "God". That said, your premise is a conjunction contingent on the simultaneous existence of 'The Divine' and the idea of death as a kind of moral evil such that you characterize the latter as being perceived as "bad".
Continuing this brief exposition, then, what your argument entails is the question of "why should we die". Although I am pretty unclear as to what you mean here, I'll again attempt to abstract your intentions. I'm guessing you're questioning the moral status of death in light of what 'others' (not you, right?) perceive as the moral wrongness of death. Some thoughts follow....
What you seem to be eluding to is formally called the 'Problem of Evil'. This is primarily a philosophical problem, i.e., philosophy of religion. On my view, some 'models of God'--as we'll call it--can avert the problem of evil without being endangering themselves to fallacies or exorbitance. However, I fear theistic Nicene Creed Christianity is not one of those. Theism, in general, fails this, that is, if God ought to be O3 or (1) Omnisicient (all knowing), (2) Omnibenevolent (all good), and (3) Omnipotent (everywhere). Most of all, though, what does this model of God in (I posit) is the condition that God has what is called 'libertarian free-will'. Simply stated, this model of an O3 God asks waaay too much, which is its ultimate undoing. Allow me to demonstrate...
Enter the problem of evil and the problem of hell (each). First, God is the creator of all creation and [He], if you will, has libertarian free-will to create (or not) His creatures and all that exists in the universe. God has foreknowledge insofar as He foreknows all events to ever occur. God is atemporal or exists outside time. That said, think of the universe and all of creation as a kind of crystal ball or 'closed-circuit television' (CCTV) system. HOWEVER...God relinquishes His ability to intervene in creaturely affairs, since to do otherwise would to impede on creaturely free-will. And free-will qua libertarian free-will is not only the most agreed upon condition amongst Nicene Creed Christians, sans Calvinism, it is the what makes the problem of evil possible!
Without creaturely free-will there is a high-probably that no evil in the world would exist, yet God could not be (on this view) Omnibenevolent if He denied creatures this kind of free-will. What is more, evil is merely analogous to ugliness in that the latter is merely the absence of 'beauty'. Further, God's allowing evil in exchange for free-will, his kind of free-will (libertarian), renders the world the maximally best world it could be on the whole. This includes the existence of a place of isolation or torment (depending on one's accepted view) called Hell. To end this, I shall give but one of the problems for this entire view: The Problem of Hell, foreknowledge, and libertarian free-will.
Recall, God foreknows, is libertarian or 'absolutely' free, and he created a place intended to help him dole out punishment called Hell. Consider the case of Adolf.
God created Adolf purely on his own free-will. In other words, God did not have to create Adolf, or God would not have absolute free-will. Also, God was aware of Adolf destiny upon conceptualizing this creature. What is Adolf's destiny? Adolf will lead the slaughter of millions of other creatures, which is forbidden by the Omnibenevolent Creator. So, God foreknows Adolf is destined for Hell upon the latter's earthly death. Earthly death for humans is inevitable. So, Adolf will go to Hell. Also, remember that God being atemporal means Adolf is absolutely free in spite of God's foreknowledge of his fate or such a fate even existing. However, God could refrain from creating Adolf, so as to keep his beloved creature from eternal damnation. But, doing so would prevent Adolf from freely choosing within the dimension of time, even though God would choose against creating him, as Adolf's conceptualization already exists in time since that is where his fate already exists. Moreover, universal events are already directed toward Adolf's existence and subsequent actions, which means that withholding Adolf's creation would necessarily require Divine Intervention. Think of God as the spark that lit big bang and the maker of the orbital material, which logically and morally He cannot impede or alter (Yes, these are problems in-and-of-themselves that we'll not get into here).
All things considered, it seems either God cannot be all-good or not all knowing, and therefore cannot exist according to a theistic model.
Back to the thread's if-then clause/title, it seems the idea that dying cannot be bad since God qua theism cannot be bad just doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
jesus tauqht us to love our enemies in the book of matthew, but why did the lord his father kill those not so wicked zamzummites.
those people were not wicked, they just didn't occupy with the lord and acted like his enemies. the trinity should have the same idea, but why is he teachin' us differently. deuteronomy 2;21 they just didn't worship jesus' father.
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Toby Wood
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Iīve been a hardcore believer in Jesus and the Bible. But just recently iīve changed my mind. I just have so much faith and then i just feel i am barking up the wrong tree. Jesus and God doesnt really feel incorporated into my daily life whatsoever. So why should i when i never get an answer to my prayers. All churches seems lukewarm, hypocritical and plain wrong.
All i see is the world and a pretty evil world. When i give around 80-90% of myself to God i expect to see some, ANYTHiNG at all wich just as well isnt what the average Joe gets. On the contrary, i seem to receive less then the average person and i see no need to believe in that when i die, THEN i will receive tons of rewards. Nah, if God liked me at all and was with me, he should have shown it already somehow. I do believe that iīve analyzed it all, my life pretty well. Looking at it from all angles and possibilities.
And my verdict is: If itīs the biblical God and Jesus that is the real thing, then he seem to have forgotten about me, doesnt care or flat out doesnt like me. Hehehe.
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Toby Wood
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Me and God are buddies again, Jesus is my pal. On Thursdays God hates me and on Sundays itīs time for some powwow and we both take a chill pill, something cool we do, a picnic or something. Nah..i am like most people i think. I can doubt, i can feel fear, anger the works.
I do have what Jesus says in my mind 24/7. I have the BIGGEST respect for who he was and though i am just little me, heīs able to change my heart at times that i would never do on my own. Like bouncing back from grudges and such, i guess. Before i could be really "GOOD" at holding a grudge and also a lot of other things.
I want others to be christians as well but i know i must be wise about it and rather then my words i beleive my actions and who i am, what i radiate will convince the most and speak louder. I do bounce back like a rubber ball most of the time and though i have a short fuse, i am always willing to forget and move on because that..that is also our deal with our Lord. He forgives us if we can understand and forgive our fellow mans trespasses. Itīs pretty lovely i think For as long as i live we all are able to do this. Bounce back and try better the next day! Weeee.
I will try to love...ehrm, accept and respect and understand you all guys better more and more. I am working on it.
Jesus saves! But Zlatan Ibrahimovich shoots it in on the rebound. Gooooooooooal!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Toby Wood
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Please understand me right this time.... "Nah..i am like most people i think. I can doubt, i can feel fear, anger the works".
With that i didnt mean that i am superman myself at the core and only kryptonite hurts me. Please dont get me wrong. Cheers
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