Foot Fetish Forum: where is National's "alpha male" thread?

This is topic where is National's "alpha male" thread? in forum Miscellaneous at Foot Fetish Forum.

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Posted by Michael P (Member # 1922) on :

I haven't been here since i made my post in it friday and I thought it would turn into interesting conversation

what happened to that thread?

Posted by vanderfeet (Member # 8733) on :

called out on plagiarism a couple times and it vanished.

Posted by Michael P (Member # 1922) on :

we all read and learn things and then put them into our own words, is it really that big of a deal if somebody copies and pastes instead?

this isn't a college english class where we have to cite our work or in this case our posts

who had a problem with what was being said? and why would they have a problem?

Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :

I was wondering the same thing...maybe National deleted it himself?

Posted by vanderfeet (Member # 8733) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Michael P:
we all read and learn things and then put them into our own words, is it really that big of a deal if somebody copies and pastes instead?

this isn't a college english class where we have to cite our work or in this case our posts

who had a problem with what was being said? and why would they have a problem?

hal simply observed that his posts were taken from some other website but no credit had been given.

i chimed in that i had noticed the same thing a couple of times in that twitter debate (the Call Me Crazy, But... thread). ( exhibit a & exhibit b )

look, i don't care if someone makes a post that they obtained from somewhere/someone else and neglects to give credit. i'm sure that happens all the time.

but in my opinion, and my point was, that if you're participating in a debate, like the twitter debate, it's only fair to acknowledge if your words are not your own.

i appreciate a good debate as much as the next guy, but it would be nice to know when one is debating a real opponent, or something copy and pasted from god knows where..

Posted by Hal (Member # 3484) on :

National deleted it himself.

-Hal-

Posted by Keyfeet (Member # 27313) on :

what alpha male thread? how did it go? what was it about?

Posted by vanderfeet (Member # 8733) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Keyfeet:
what alpha male thread? how did it go? what was it about?

it went a little something like this... *fart*

Posted by Michael P (Member # 1922) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Keyfeet:
what alpha male thread? how did it go? what was it about?

it described how a man should live to be as successful as possible in all facets of life

i think gq guy said it's the stuff a good father or big brother teach you, however most are forced to learn on their own, if they ever learn at all

of course it had doubters because some people feel that life is all about taking orders, never rocking the boat, and living in other peoples reality, rather than their own reality

it always makes for interesting conversation

Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Michael P:
it described how a man should live to be as successful as possible in all facets of life

of course it had doubters because some people feel that life is all about taking orders, never rocking the boat, and living in other peoples reality, rather than their own reality

Well those are the two extremes - it's not like you WONT get anywhere in life if you don't act alpha though (and if you do, there's no guarantee you'll own your own business or whatever just by following those steps). If anything it's the ones who follow this "act alpha" advice who are "living in someone else's reality". They didn't come up with the concept of it. It's just something that helps those who have a difficult time socialising and feel insecure around people (girls in particular) for whatever reason.

Posted by GQguy (Member # 16534) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Andy-Laa:

quote:
Originally posted by Michael P:
it described how a man should live to be as successful as possible in all facets of life

of course it had doubters because some people feel that life is all about taking orders, never rocking the boat, and living in other peoples reality, rather than their own reality
Well those are the two extremes - it's not like you WONT get anywhere in life if you don't act alpha though (and if you do, there's no guarantee you'll own your own business or whatever just by following those steps). If anything it's the ones who follow this "act alpha" advice who are "living in someone else's reality". They didn't come up with the concept of it. It's just something that helps those who have a difficult time socialising and feel insecure around people (girls in particular) for whatever reason.

More important was the link between Alpha and being a leader. I think the two are synonymous. People that feel insecure around people don't lead. They follow the person that is most secure and in control of the situation. National simply gave little tid bits of advice to lead when out in a social setting for those that were perhaps not cognisant of what was happening.

As for being alpha/leader around women it is a must! I remember being 18 and asking a girl on a date. Then asking her where she wanted to go. Then askinng her what she wanted to do thinking I was being a great guy. No! They hated that. Finally I got the advice that I need to be the leader and decide where to go, how we'll get there and what we'd do. Women have responded greatly to this. Best advice ever come to think of it! And theres nothing wrong with it. Being alpha is not being a bully. My dates will let me know if sushi is a terrible choice for dinner and i'll pick something different. My buddies will let me know if the bar I chose to head to that evening sucks on that night. And then i'll choose another spot. And you know what....they always follow along. People like leaders. Women like leaders.

Not being a leader is ok. Someone needs to follow.

Posted by Michael P (Member # 1922) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Andy-Laa:

quote:
Originally posted by Michael P:
it described how a man should live to be as successful as possible in all facets of life

of course it had doubters because some people feel that life is all about taking orders, never rocking the boat, and living in other peoples reality, rather than their own reality
Well those are the two extremes - it's not like you WONT get anywhere in life if you don't act alpha though (and if you do, there's no guarantee you'll own your own business or whatever just by following those steps). If anything it's the ones who follow this "act alpha" advice who are "living in someone else's reality". They didn't come up with the concept of it. It's just something that helps those who have a difficult time socialising and feel insecure around people (girls in particular) for whatever reason.

i never said you won't get anywhere in life if you aren't alpha, most men are betas, there can only be one guy at the top of a business, social circle, clique etc

there really is nothing wrong with being beta, you just won't have the quality of life of a more alpha guy

if you're following a friend around a club like a lost puppy, more than likely he'll be the guy that gets laid over you, the guy running the business will make more money than an employee of the business, the leader of a sports team gets the most credit and glory when the team wins even though someone else might have hit the winning shot, scored the winning goal etc

a true alpha isn't insecure around women, he wouldn't be an alpha if he was, you seem to think that all alphas are putting on an act probably because they make you feel uncomfortable

alphas are real with people, betas aren't and most people don't like it when people are real, they want to hear only what they want to hear

everybody has thoughts, views, or opinions that can ruffle feathers, the betas keep their opinions to themselves because they fear other peoples reactions and care too much about what other people think

the alpha doesn't give a fuck

as for not being alpha because you follow the alpha advice, that doesn't make sense

smart people follow good advice and insight and are willing to learn, dumb people live by the motto "just be yourself" even when being themselves hasn't been working for them

show me one great person in history that didn't have some sort of guidance somewhere along the way, nobody is born with everything figured out and nobody gets to the top by themselves

a successful person had a positive role model somewhere along the way, some are forced to learn through experience and insight from others

Posted by vanderfeet (Member # 8733) on :

i don't quite understand this "alpha male" fixation, at least in the way it's being presented in this forum.

it seems to me that if one desires to achieve greatness, then there are certain things that need to be continuously improved upon and maintained: intelligence (ensuring one is well-read and well-educated), physical fitness/health, self-confidence, ethics, etc.

it may well be that if one concentrates on those areas, then one might emerge as an "alpha". but by reducing the concept of an alpha to simply "being a leader", or being someone who "doesn't give a fuck" in voicing their opinions, or being the "one guy at the top of a business, social circle, or clique", then you aren't really considering what makes someone a particularly effective or good leader, or even a healthy individual.

i've had many groups of friends over the years, and i've known many guys who definitely liked to take control of our social situations. not all of them are presently successful. one actually drank himself to death before he hit 25. simply because someone has the self-confidence to "lead" in a group setting, doesn't mean he will rise to the top of his business or be the most successful at what he chooses to do with his life. and if he does rise to the top, he still might fail spectacularly if he is a dense, inconsiderate twat. we all know that there are some very poor "leaders" out there.

it seems to me that being an alpha male, or a leader, shouldn't be the be-all and end-all of someone's aspirations. it's placing the end before the means, which causes desperate people to seek out self-help "gurus" who hand out common sense tricks -- easy answers -- to their followers. so, some hack told you to be the first to enter a restaurant, and now some skank is interested in a second date. does that mean you're the next donald trump? not if you're a dumb shit, it doesn't!

point being, concentrate on the means, not the end. being the guy at the top of a clique or a business does not alone mean that you are going to be effective or well-liked. cultivate self-discipline. build upon your intelligence. study, study, study. stay fit and motivated. believe in yourself. have a respect for ethics. and never stop these things. the rest will take care of itself.

Posted by 18th Floor (Member # 35007) on :

I think Alpha's are the ones who keeps things in perspective. Vanderfeet said: cultivate self-discipline. build upon your intelligence. study, study, study. stay fit and motivated. believe in yourself. have a respect for ethics. and never stop these things. the rest will take care of itself.

People have such huge misconceptions of what an Alpha male is truly about that they don't take into consideration that Alpha Males are also men who takes in the characteristics that I highlighted from Vandefeet's post.

I want you to read this article from Ross Jefferies about how Alphas end up winning the most championships. http://www.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_100/137_dating_advice_a.html

Here's another article. You'll get advice how Alphas stay legendary. At the end, this passage explains how things usually go in favor of the Alpha: Alpha males aren’t concerned with being liked. This is true in part because they already get enough love from themselves. But they aren’t the only ones who love them; while conducting research for this article, I came across numerous blogs that featured women tangled in a heated discussion concerning the alpha male. Allow me to paraphrase the overarching female opinion on such men:

“Alpha Males are jerks. I can’t stand how attracted I am to them.”

Anyway, her's that article I was talking about: http://www.askmen.com/money/successful_150/178_success.html

Posted by GQguy (Member # 16534) on :

Here we go guys! Good post everyone. I think everyone is right. Following the collective advice here will lead to success in all aspects of life. National's original post were simply tactics to display alpha characteristics while Vanderfeet is refering to the tools that build a person people are willing to follow.

Good stuff. Post like these better the foot fetish community.

Sort of off topic but has anyone realized that there is a small minority of men that hookup with the majority of women? It is the alpha types that comprise that minority. So when it relates to our foot fetish which is intertwined with hooking up it is in our best interest to be that alpha minority.

The above statement might be a little hard for some to take if they're in the majority. But then ask yourself....why stay there?

GQguy

Posted by National (Member # 8568) on :

WHAT?! I copied from somebody and not tell anyone where it originally came from? Oh, shit! Oops, my bad!

The idea behind this whole thing was to provide snippets of how to be headstrong in different assets of life, not just entertaining the ladies. Even though the original post was about entertaining women, the aspect that the naysayers did not take into account was that being an artist in enchanting a Venusian (or a group of them) can also lead into having a greater chance of leading a better lifestyle overall, just like Vanderfeet said about believing in yourself, staying fit and having respect for others.

But again, this leads back to the ladies because everything you do in life is meant so that women cannot be repulsed by your presence and persona. Everything from brushing your teeth to maintaining a job or career. Practically anyone can maintain all of these. But where the alpha exceeds is in the "More Attractive to the Females" department. Alphas get more of them and these women tend to be hotter.

Don't confuse this as guide of how to become a jerk and become quite condescending towards women or other men who are a part of your circle. (Ok, being a bit of a jerk can work to some advantage. Besides, that's where the saying "nice guys finish last" comes into play, but being an Alpha is not about being a *complete* jerk or some dictator.) A huge misunderstanding of what an Alpha is is someone who puts down other people just to embarrass or to show off the other person. To me, that's the definition of what a bully is. Alphas are more calm, cool, and collected than Betas and Omegas. The characteristics of an Alpha are the same as those that championship-caliber teams portray and bring forth: Commitment, courage, discipline, luck, strength, perseverance, ingenuity, and I'm pretty sure there are other traits I'm missing. A combination of all those traits is what makes one very successful. Those who can't comprehend the appeal or mystique must be those who lack a multiple of those traits. Look at all the qualities I mentioned before. How many losing teams and unsuccessful people possess all of these traits. Don't worry, I've got all night.

And yes, EVERYTHING I just said was copied and pasted. ...Just joking. But to finish off, I'll repeat what GQ said:

quote:
Originally posted by GQguy:

Sort of off topic but has anyone realized that there is a small minority of men that hookup with the majority of women? It is the alpha types that comprise that minority. So when it relates to our foot fetish which is intertwined with hooking up it is in our best interest to be that alpha minority.

The above statement might be a little hard for some to take if they're in the majority. But then ask yourself....why stay there?

GQguy

Because they don't want to be involved with drama. Drama is nauseating. But drama involves taking risks and being a bit bold and trying a different approach to being more successful with the Lovelies from Venus. But drama is natural, everyone will come to some point where they will put on their own brakes. Like GQ pointed out in the original post I deleted, it's topics like these that can be more resourceful as opposed to the "How to get girls to show their feet" and the "Camera Phone" topic where some guy asked which camera phone he should by to take HQ photos of women's feet.

The advice I wanted to display was to seek new endeavors.

--National

Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Michael P:
you just won't have the quality of life of a more alpha guy

Well that's a matter of opinion (that the life of an "alpha" is of a better quality). There are equally-weighted negative aspects; if there's some trouble, the "alpha" is the one people all turn to - he has to sort it all out and the (possible) greater ability of others to do so is overlooked thus resulting in a decision that could be flawed and therefore the blame goes to the "alpha".

quote:
if you're following a friend around a club like a lost puppy, more than likely he'll be the guy that gets laid over you, the guy running the business will make more money than an employee of the business, the leader of a sports team gets the most credit and glory when the team wins even though someone else might have hit the winning shot, scored the winning goal etc

I agree.

quote:
a true alpha isn't insecure around women, he wouldn't be an alpha if he was, you seem to think that all alphas are putting on an act probably because they make you feel uncomfortable

Why would "alphas" make me feel uncomfortable? I've said I don't know if I do it naturally or what, but I am begrudgingly the one everyone goes to for advice: I'm the one asked to organise things, I'm the one who everyone seems to tell their secrets to...I never really got why tbh.

And about girls - putting aside our opinions about my relationship: I've always been good at talking to girls. I think it's probably growing up with a heavily female family probably that gave me this ability. (I grew up with my sister and 2 cousins all of whom are girls).

quote:
alphas are real with people, betas aren't and most people don't like it when people are real, they want to hear only what they want to hear

That one is a bit too far a leap for me to see where you're coming from...just because they make contradictory statements does not make them "alpha" and similarly just because they agree with the trend, why does that make them "betas"?

quote:
everybody has thoughts, views, or opinions that can ruffle feathers, the betas keep their opinions to themselves because they fear other peoples reactions and care too much about what other people think

the alpha doesn't give a fuck

To be honest...people like that appear to be the idiots of the group. I'll give a simple example: from the definition you have given and supporting evidence presented, a member of the BNP (British Nationalist Party - an extreme right-wing political group who are quoted as saying "boats filled with immigrants should be sunk to the bottom of the ocean" and other such remarks) is a true “alpha”. Now they are very loud and brazen with their policies; they have very enthusiastic supporters, they've recently been elected into the EP; they're pretty good orators. I'll guesstimate that 80% of Britain think they're a joke. Their policies are very contradictory (as you seem to say you need to be "alpha") and yet, people consider them idiots due to their policies. Why haven't they been embraced? As they fit every category you're trying to tell me an "alpha" is...

quote:
as for not being alpha because you follow the alpha advice, that doesn't make sense

It wasn't advice that was given - it was a full guide to being somebody else...advice is a quick one line like: "Take charge of the situation!" Not specific, detailed steps you have to follow. And it does make sense; what doesn’t make sense is the contradiction in your “bible” I have presented to you: “alphas” make decisions and sort everyone else out…and according to you, you need to completely change yourself to what someone else deems to be “alpha” so you can never even truly be an “alpha”. By your way of seeing things, you’re essentially a “beta” who puts up a front of being an “alpha”. It’s a total act.

quote:
smart people follow good advice and insight and are willing to learn,

Yes.

quote:

dumb people live by the motto "just be yourself" even when being themselves hasn't been working for them

You raised an interesting point there in the line, “when being themselves hasn’t been working for them.” So you admit that it’s socially inept people that have to follow these guides to make any kind of difference? Personally, being me has worked out; I’m popular, trusted and get on well meeting new people…so I’m dumb for not needing this advice? How if my life is going well?

quote:
show me one great person in history that didn't have some sort of guidance somewhere along the way, nobody is born with everything figured out and nobody gets to the top by themselves

That’s not what I was saying; you either misunderstood or you’re twisting words again to undermine the argument I put forth (benefit of the doubt says you didn’t understand). I’m saying this is a guide to making yourself another person therefore it is ALL an act. Behind closed doors you’re a different guy and people will be able to work this out.

This one is a bit random, but I’d say an admirable personality trait that gets you noticed is being able to laugh at yourself…if you follow this guide and “be alpha”…then you can’t do this. It goes against the “rules” of being “alpha” and this is one trait that you can’t predict when it will arise. People make an off-comment about an “alpha” and the “alpha” will try and come back at that person with an insult. You’ve proven this from time-to-time and it gets a bit pathetic and people notice that…

[ July 20, 2009, 01:58 PM: Message edited by: Andy-Laa ]

Posted by Michael P (Member # 1922) on :

quote:
Originally posted by vanderfeet:
i don't quite understand this "alpha male" fixation, at least in the way it's being presented in this forum.

it seems to me that if one desires to achieve greatness, then there are certain things that need to be continuously improved upon and maintained: intelligence (ensuring one is well-read and well-educated), physical fitness/health, self-confidence, ethics, etc.

it may well be that if one concentrates on those areas, then one might emerge as an "alpha". but by reducing the concept of an alpha to simply "being a leader", or being someone who "doesn't give a fuck" in voicing their opinions, or being the "one guy at the top of a business, social circle, or clique", then you aren't really considering what makes someone a particularly effective or good leader, or even a healthy individual.

i've had many groups of friends over the years, and i've known many guys who definitely liked to take control of our social situations. not all of them are presently successful. one actually drank himself to death before he hit 25. simply because someone has the self-confidence to "lead" in a group setting, doesn't mean he will rise to the top of his business or be the most successful at what he chooses to do with his life. and if he does rise to the top, he still might fail spectacularly if he is a dense, inconsiderate twat. we all know that there are some very poor "leaders" out there.

it seems to me that being an alpha male, or a leader, shouldn't be the be-all and end-all of someone's aspirations. it's placing the end before the means, which causes desperate people to seek out self-help "gurus" who hand out common sense tricks -- easy answers -- to their followers. so, some hack told you to be the first to enter a restaurant, and now some skank is interested in a second date. does that mean you're the next donald trump? not if you're a dumb shit, it doesn't!

point being, concentrate on the means, not the end. being the guy at the top of a clique or a business does not alone mean that you are going to be effective or well-liked. cultivate self-discipline. build upon your intelligence. study, study, study. stay fit and motivated. believe in yourself. have a respect for ethics. and never stop these things. the rest will take care of itself.

i agree with everything you said

i don't have time to write a book on this forum [Smile]

Posted by Michael P (Member # 1922) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Andy-Laa:

quote:
Originally posted by Michael P:
you just won't have the quality of life of a more alpha guy
Well that's a matter of opinion (that the life of an "alpha" is of a better quality). There are equally-weighted negative aspects; if there's some trouble, the "alpha" is the one people all turn to - he has to sort it all out and the (possible) greater ability of others to do so is overlooked thus resulting in a decision that could be flawed and therefore the blame goes to the "alpha".

quote:
if you're following a friend around a club like a lost puppy, more than likely he'll be the guy that gets laid over you, the guy running the business will make more money than an employee of the business, the leader of a sports team gets the most credit and glory when the team wins even though someone else might have hit the winning shot, scored the winning goal etc
I agree.

quote:
a true alpha isn't insecure around women, he wouldn't be an alpha if he was, you seem to think that all alphas are putting on an act probably because they make you feel uncomfortable
Why would "alphas" make me feel uncomfortable? I've said I don't know if I do it naturally or what, but I am begrudgingly the one everyone goes to for advice: I'm the one asked to organise things, I'm the one who everyone seems to tell their secrets to...I never really got why tbh.

And about girls - putting aside our opinions about my relationship: I've always been good at talking to girls. I think it's probably growing up with a heavily female family probably that gave me this ability. (I grew up with my sister and 2 cousins all of whom are girls).

quote:
alphas are real with people, betas aren't and most people don't like it when people are real, they want to hear only what they want to hear
That one is a bit too far a leap for me to see where you're coming from...just because they make contradictory statements does not make them "alpha" and similarly just because they agree with the trend, why does that make them "betas"?

quote:
everybody has thoughts, views, or opinions that can ruffle feathers, the betas keep their opinions to themselves because they fear other peoples reactions and care too much about what other people think

the alpha doesn't give a fuck
To be honest...people like that appear to be the idiots of the group. I'll give a simple example: from the definition you have given and supporting evidence presented, a member of the BNP (British Nationalist Party - an extreme right-wing political group who are quoted as saying "boats filled with immigrants should be sunk to the bottom of the ocean" and other such remarks) is a true “alpha”. Now they are very loud and brazen with their policies; they have very enthusiastic supporters, they've recently been elected into the EP; they're pretty good orators. I'll guesstimate that 80% of Britain think they're a joke. Their policies are very contradictory (as you seem to say you need to be "alpha") and yet, people consider them idiots due to their policies. Why haven't they been embraced? As they fit every category you're trying to tell me an "alpha" is...

quote:
as for not being alpha because you follow the alpha advice, that doesn't make sense
It wasn't advice that was given - it was a full guide to being somebody else...advice is a quick one line like: "Take charge of the situation!" Not specific, detailed steps you have to follow. And it does make sense; what doesn’t make sense is the contradiction in your “bible” I have presented to you: “alphas” make decisions and sort everyone else out…and according to you, you need to completely change yourself to what someone else deems to be “alpha” so you can never even truly be an “alpha”. By your way of seeing things, you’re essentially a “beta” who puts up a front of being an “alpha”. It’s a total act.

quote:
smart people follow good advice and insight and are willing to learn,
Yes.

quote:

dumb people live by the motto "just be yourself" even when being themselves hasn't been working for them
You raised an interesting point there in the line, “when being themselves hasn’t been working for them.” So you admit that it’s socially inept people that have to follow these guides to make any kind of difference? Personally, being me has worked out; I’m popular, trusted and get on well meeting new people…so I’m dumb for not needing this advice? How if my life is going well?

quote:
show me one great person in history that didn't have some sort of guidance somewhere along the way, nobody is born with everything figured out and nobody gets to the top by themselves
That’s not what I was saying; you either misunderstood or you’re twisting words again to undermine the argument I put forth (benefit of the doubt says you didn’t understand). I’m saying this is a guide to making yourself another person therefore it is ALL an act. Behind closed doors you’re a different guy and people will be able to work this out.

This one is a bit random, but I’d say an admirable personality trait that gets you noticed is being able to laugh at yourself…if you follow this guide and “be alpha”…then you can’t do this. It goes against the “rules” of being “alpha” and this is one trait that you can’t predict when it will arise. People make an off-comment about an “alpha” and the “alpha” will try and come back at that person with an insult. You’ve proven this from time-to-time and it gets a bit pathetic and people notice that…

you'll never understand this

nuff said

Posted by GQguy (Member # 16534) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Andy-Laa:

quote:
Originally posted by Michael P:
you just won't have the quality of life of a more alpha guy
Well that's a matter of opinion (that the life of an "alpha" is of a better quality). There are equally-weighted negative aspects; if there's some trouble, the "alpha" is the one people all turn to - he has to sort it all out and the (possible) greater ability of others to do so is overlooked thus resulting in a decision that could be flawed and therefore the blame goes to the "alpha".

quote:
if you're following a friend around a club like a lost puppy, more than likely he'll be the guy that gets laid over you, the guy running the business will make more money than an employee of the business, the leader of a sports team gets the most credit and glory when the team wins even though someone else might have hit the winning shot, scored the winning goal etc
I agree.

quote:
a true alpha isn't insecure around women, he wouldn't be an alpha if he was, you seem to think that all alphas are putting on an act probably because they make you feel uncomfortable
Why would "alphas" make me feel uncomfortable? I've said I don't know if I do it naturally or what, but I am begrudgingly the one everyone goes to for advice: I'm the one asked to organise things, I'm the one who everyone seems to tell their secrets to...I never really got why tbh.

And about girls - putting aside our opinions about my relationship: I've always been good at talking to girls. I think it's probably growing up with a heavily female family probably that gave me this ability. (I grew up with my sister and 2 cousins all of whom are girls).

quote:
alphas are real with people, betas aren't and most people don't like it when people are real, they want to hear only what they want to hear
That one is a bit too far a leap for me to see where you're coming from...just because they make contradictory statements does not make them "alpha" and similarly just because they agree with the trend, why does that make them "betas"?

quote:
everybody has thoughts, views, or opinions that can ruffle feathers, the betas keep their opinions to themselves because they fear other peoples reactions and care too much about what other people think

the alpha doesn't give a fuck
To be honest...people like that appear to be the idiots of the group. I'll give a simple example: from the definition you have given and supporting evidence presented, a member of the BNP (British Nationalist Party - an extreme right-wing political group who are quoted as saying "boats filled with immigrants should be sunk to the bottom of the ocean" and other such remarks) is a true “alpha”. Now they are very loud and brazen with their policies; they have very enthusiastic supporters, they've recently been elected into the EP; they're pretty good orators. I'll guesstimate that 80% of Britain think they're a joke. Their policies are very contradictory (as you seem to say you need to be "alpha") and yet, people consider them idiots due to their policies. Why haven't they been embraced? As they fit every category you're trying to tell me an "alpha" is...

quote:
as for not being alpha because you follow the alpha advice, that doesn't make sense
It wasn't advice that was given - it was a full guide to being somebody else...advice is a quick one line like: "Take charge of the situation!" Not specific, detailed steps you have to follow. And it does make sense; what doesn’t make sense is the contradiction in your “bible” I have presented to you: “alphas” make decisions and sort everyone else out…and according to you, you need to completely change yourself to what someone else deems to be “alpha” so you can never even truly be an “alpha”. By your way of seeing things, you’re essentially a “beta” who puts up a front of being an “alpha”. It’s a total act.

quote:
smart people follow good advice and insight and are willing to learn,
Yes.

quote:

dumb people live by the motto "just be yourself" even when being themselves hasn't been working for them
You raised an interesting point there in the line, “when being themselves hasn’t been working for them.” So you admit that it’s socially inept people that have to follow these guides to make any kind of difference? Personally, being me has worked out; I’m popular, trusted and get on well meeting new people…so I’m dumb for not needing this advice? How if my life is going well?

quote:
show me one great person in history that didn't have some sort of guidance somewhere along the way, nobody is born with everything figured out and nobody gets to the top by themselves
That’s not what I was saying; you either misunderstood or you’re twisting words again to undermine the argument I put forth (benefit of the doubt says you didn’t understand). I’m saying this is a guide to making yourself another person therefore it is ALL an act. Behind closed doors you’re a different guy and people will be able to work this out.

This one is a bit random, but I’d say an admirable personality trait that gets you noticed is being able to laugh at yourself…if you follow this guide and “be alpha”…then you can’t do this. It goes against the “rules” of being “alpha” and this is one trait that you can’t predict when it will arise. People make an off-comment about an “alpha” and the “alpha” will try and come back at that person with an insult. You’ve proven this from time-to-time and it gets a bit pathetic and people notice that…

"Sort of off topic but has anyone realized that there is a small minority of men that hookup with the majority of women? It is the alpha types that comprise that minority. So when it relates to our foot fetish which is intertwined with hooking up it is in our best interest to be that alpha minority.

The above statement might be a little hard for some to take if they're in the majority. But then ask yourself....why stay there? "

I'm quoting myself above but I think this statement captures the spirit of this thread. Why be the guy in the majority that doesn't get alot of dates and doesn't get to explore his foot fetish ect. Theres alot of that here. Hell there'd be alot of women here that'd go out of business if all of the guys here weren't lonely.

I've read your post and I see that you think the alpha male theory is crap/fake ect. Thats great! But it'd be better if you provided a better way. So assuming that you have lots of success with women how do you propose we solve the above problem. Also assuming that most men would rather be in the group that has multiple options when it comes to women.

Do tell. And use examples to bolster your credibility.

GQ

Posted by Michael P (Member # 1922) on :

quote:
Originally posted by GQguy:

quote:
Originally posted by Andy-Laa:

quote:
Originally posted by Michael P:
you just won't have the quality of life of a more alpha guy
Well that's a matter of opinion (that the life of an "alpha" is of a better quality). There are equally-weighted negative aspects; if there's some trouble, the "alpha" is the one people all turn to - he has to sort it all out and the (possible) greater ability of others to do so is overlooked thus resulting in a decision that could be flawed and therefore the blame goes to the "alpha".

quote:
if you're following a friend around a club like a lost puppy, more than likely he'll be the guy that gets laid over you, the guy running the business will make more money than an employee of the business, the leader of a sports team gets the most credit and glory when the team wins even though someone else might have hit the winning shot, scored the winning goal etc
I agree.

quote:
a true alpha isn't insecure around women, he wouldn't be an alpha if he was, you seem to think that all alphas are putting on an act probably because they make you feel uncomfortable
Why would "alphas" make me feel uncomfortable? I've said I don't know if I do it naturally or what, but I am begrudgingly the one everyone goes to for advice: I'm the one asked to organise things, I'm the one who everyone seems to tell their secrets to...I never really got why tbh.

And about girls - putting aside our opinions about my relationship: I've always been good at talking to girls. I think it's probably growing up with a heavily female family probably that gave me this ability. (I grew up with my sister and 2 cousins all of whom are girls).

quote:
alphas are real with people, betas aren't and most people don't like it when people are real, they want to hear only what they want to hear
That one is a bit too far a leap for me to see where you're coming from...just because they make contradictory statements does not make them "alpha" and similarly just because they agree with the trend, why does that make them "betas"?

quote:
everybody has thoughts, views, or opinions that can ruffle feathers, the betas keep their opinions to themselves because they fear other peoples reactions and care too much about what other people think

the alpha doesn't give a fuck
To be honest...people like that appear to be the idiots of the group. I'll give a simple example: from the definition you have given and supporting evidence presented, a member of the BNP (British Nationalist Party - an extreme right-wing political group who are quoted as saying "boats filled with immigrants should be sunk to the bottom of the ocean" and other such remarks) is a true “alpha”. Now they are very loud and brazen with their policies; they have very enthusiastic supporters, they've recently been elected into the EP; they're pretty good orators. I'll guesstimate that 80% of Britain think they're a joke. Their policies are very contradictory (as you seem to say you need to be "alpha") and yet, people consider them idiots due to their policies. Why haven't they been embraced? As they fit every category you're trying to tell me an "alpha" is...

quote:
as for not being alpha because you follow the alpha advice, that doesn't make sense
It wasn't advice that was given - it was a full guide to being somebody else...advice is a quick one line like: "Take charge of the situation!" Not specific, detailed steps you have to follow. And it does make sense; what doesn’t make sense is the contradiction in your “bible” I have presented to you: “alphas” make decisions and sort everyone else out…and according to you, you need to completely change yourself to what someone else deems to be “alpha” so you can never even truly be an “alpha”. By your way of seeing things, you’re essentially a “beta” who puts up a front of being an “alpha”. It’s a total act.

quote:
smart people follow good advice and insight and are willing to learn,
Yes.

quote:

dumb people live by the motto "just be yourself" even when being themselves hasn't been working for them
You raised an interesting point there in the line, “when being themselves hasn’t been working for them.” So you admit that it’s socially inept people that have to follow these guides to make any kind of difference? Personally, being me has worked out; I’m popular, trusted and get on well meeting new people…so I’m dumb for not needing this advice? How if my life is going well?

quote:
show me one great person in history that didn't have some sort of guidance somewhere along the way, nobody is born with everything figured out and nobody gets to the top by themselves
That’s not what I was saying; you either misunderstood or you’re twisting words again to undermine the argument I put forth (benefit of the doubt says you didn’t understand). I’m saying this is a guide to making yourself another person therefore it is ALL an act. Behind closed doors you’re a different guy and people will be able to work this out.

This one is a bit random, but I’d say an admirable personality trait that gets you noticed is being able to laugh at yourself…if you follow this guide and “be alpha”…then you can’t do this. It goes against the “rules” of being “alpha” and this is one trait that you can’t predict when it will arise. People make an off-comment about an “alpha” and the “alpha” will try and come back at that person with an insult. You’ve proven this from time-to-time and it gets a bit pathetic and people notice that…
"Sort of off topic but has anyone realized that there is a small minority of men that hookup with the majority of women? It is the alpha types that comprise that minority. So when it relates to our foot fetish which is intertwined with hooking up it is in our best interest to be that alpha minority.

The above statement might be a little hard for some to take if they're in the majority. But then ask yourself....why stay there? "

I'm quoting myself above but I think this statement captures the spirit of this thread. Why be the guy in the majority that doesn't get alot of dates and doesn't get to explore his foot fetish ect. Theres alot of that here. Hell there'd be alot of women here that'd go out of business if all of the guys here weren't lonely.

I've read your post and I see that you think the alpha male theory is crap/fake ect. Thats great! But it'd be better if you provided a better way. So assuming that you have lots of success with women how do you propose we solve the above problem. Also assuming that most men would rather be in the group that has multiple options when it comes to women.

Do tell. And use examples to bolster your credibility.

GQ

Posted by Hal (Member # 3484) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Andy-Laa:

quote:
everybody has thoughts, views, or opinions that can ruffle feathers, the betas keep their opinions to themselves because they fear other peoples reactions and care too much about what other people think

the alpha doesn't give a fuck
To be honest...people like that appear to be the idiots of the group. I'll give a simple example: from the definition you have given and supporting evidence presented, a member of the BNP (British Nationalist Party - an extreme right-wing political group who are quoted as saying "boats filled with immigrants should be sunk to the bottom of the ocean" and other such remarks) is a true “alpha”. Now they are very loud and brazen with their policies; they have very enthusiastic supporters, they've recently been elected into the EP; they're pretty good orators. I'll guesstimate that 80% of Britain think they're a joke. Their policies are very contradictory (as you seem to say you need to be "alpha") and yet, people consider them idiots due to their policies. Why haven't they been embraced? As they fit every category you're trying to tell me an "alpha" is...

-Hal-

Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Michael P:
his posts in this thread should be ignored

The cornered "alpha".

So...you can't respond to any of my points without being proven wrong? That doesn't suggest a flawed logic?

Oh, I love that response.

Thanks.

[ July 20, 2009, 06:03 PM: Message edited by: Andy-Laa ]

Posted by GQguy (Member # 16534) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Andy-Laa:

quote:
Originally posted by Michael P:
his posts in this thread should be ignored
The cornered "alpha".

So...you can't respond to any of my points without being proven wrong? That doesn't suggest a flawed logic?

Oh, I love that response.

Thanks.

I was hoping you'd address my post. For the betterment of the community.

GQ

Posted by National (Member # 8568) on :

Check this out:

Between Batman and Robin, who's the alpha? That's exactly what I thought, too. Robin is often overlooked because he is Batman's what?.... Sidekick. In other words, Beta. Alpha's get the glory just like Batman baskets in all of the glory. People know more, and care more, or respect the alphas more than the Betas. Everyone knows that Batman's real name is Bruce Wayne. How many people (especially women) know the real name of Robin? It's Dick Grayson, but people who are not really into comic books will not come up with that name off the top of their heads. Why? Robin is not Alpha. If Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson walked into the same club at the same time, Robin will be the one following Batman around like a lost puppy. Bruce Wayne wins again. Why? I'll let you figure that out for yourselves. Whatever answers you come up with, those are the reasons why Alphas are better than Betas.

But let's get away from the females for a second. Who do the people turn to when the city is in shambles -- Batman or Robin? That's right, they turn to Batman more than they do his sidekick Robin.

Why? You people already know. Whatever answers you have, that equals Alpha.

I rest my case.

Who knew that something as simple as cartoons can reflect so much with what reality brings to light?

--National

Posted by vanderfeet (Member # 8733) on :

Eh. It's an overly simplistic theory. Treating this subject in such black-and-white, "alpha vs. beta" terms is silly.

The alpha male model is frequently useful in the animal kingdom, sure, but extrapolating it into the world of human relations is not so straightforward. Wolves, lions, hyenas...what comprises their lives? Eating, shitting, and fucking. Falls a bit short of the vast spectrum of human behavior, human emotion, and sheer human variety, doesn't it?

In fact, one needn't even jump straight to humans in order to appreciate how complex an issue it is. The lesser primates are more than capable of proving this to us. Bonobos are actually an outright matriarchal society. The community is dominated by female alliances.

Enter homo sapiens, with brains infinitely more complicated and nuanced than the apes. We haven't been among the "eat, shit, and fuck" crowd for over 100,000 years. "Alpha male vs beta male" in the human context is too simplistic.

Someone who is "alpha" in one social context may be anything but in a different context. The great poets, writers, musicians, and artists of the ages likely would fail if forced to lead in a business or other contradictory setting. But they are still great. They're immortalized. And I assure you, many of them fucked their fair share of ladies. I don't think you have to obsess over being some kind of arbitrary, WWE-inspired "alpha male" in order to achieve greatness and get some pussy. So many roads to greatness...they don't all have to involve Axe Body Spray.

I mean, the term originated to help illustrate hierarchies within animal communities, usually no more than, what, like 15 members? Obviously there are still 'leaders' in human societies, but to pretend that the non-leaders or 'betas' in metropolises of 100,000 people or more are all the same, or are all going to be as deprived as some flea-bitten wolf runt, is far from accurate. Many of them are probably doing so well for themselves that I almost have to question if the distinction is even worth applying at all, when it comes to humans. We're talking an entire spectrum here. Not just alpha vs beta, black vs white.

<end rant>

Posted by Michael P (Member # 1922) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Andy-Laa:

quote:
Originally posted by Michael P:
his posts in this thread should be ignored
The cornered "alpha".

So...you can't respond to any of my points without being proven wrong? That doesn't suggest a flawed logic?

Oh, I love that response.

Thanks.

when you argue with a fool, you become a fool yourself

this is out of your league

i like how you are dodging gqguy's post, it shows your "e-vendetta" against me, along with your sig [Tongue]

[ July 21, 2009, 02:36 AM: Message edited by: Michael P ]

Posted by 18th Floor (Member # 35007) on :

quote:
Originally posted by vanderfeet:
The great poets, writers, musicians, and artists of the ages likely would fail if forced to lead in a business or other contradictory setting. But they are still great. They're immortalized. And I assure you, many of them fucked their fair share of ladies. I don't think you have to obsess over being some kind of arbitrary, WWE-inspired "alpha male" in order to achieve greatness and get some pussy. So many roads to greatness...they don't all have to involve Axe Body Spray.

Alpha males don't just put on AXE Body Spray. We put on Acqua Di Gio from Giorgio Armani, John Varvatos, Bora Bora ... you know, the stuff men put on regardless of their status as being alpha or beta. Any guy, leading practically any kind of lifestyle is going to get laid. Alphas tend to get more action. Poets, musicians, artists ... aren't these people getting laid more than the average Joe already, especially poets, musicians, and artists? All betas are not geeks. Most betas lead good lives where they are able to make ends meet to support themselves. It's just that alphas have higher self esteem than betas, they are leaders instead of followers. And how? Go back to the links I provided in my last message to get a better sense of how we are the more attended to by the females and our male buddies. Until you do so, you will be stuck on this image that we are cavemen living in the industrialized movement where everything is still as black and white as it was when the cavemens literally yanked the women by their hairs and dragged them across the ground.

I think the word Alpha sounds to macho for some guys in here. We should just call it "men who have it better with women than the rest of the male population who do not want to understand why that is."

That Batman and Robin thing pretty much summed this topic up. I can assure you Bruce Wayne puts on something more sophisticated than AXE body spray, though there's nothing wrong with using such a thing. I like BOD body spray, too. I think musicians put on AXE quite often.

In any event, that was a great post you posted, Vanderfeet. I respect your point of view, though I'm siding with the alpha.

Posted by Michael P (Member # 1922) on :

quote:
Originally posted by vanderfeet:
Eh. It's an overly simplistic theory. Treating this subject in such black-and-white, "alpha vs. beta" terms is silly.

The alpha male model is frequently useful in the animal kingdom, sure, but extrapolating it into the world of human relations is not so straightforward. Wolves, lions, hyenas...what comprises their lives? Eating, shitting, and fucking. Falls a bit short of the vast spectrum of human behavior, human emotion, and sheer human variety, doesn't it?

In fact, one needn't even jump straight to humans in order to appreciate how complex an issue it is. The lesser primates are more than capable of proving this to us. Bonobos are actually an outright matriarchal society. The community is dominated by female alliances.

Enter homo sapiens, with brains infinitely more complicated and nuanced than the apes. We haven't been among the "eat, shit, and fuck" crowd for over 100,000 years. "Alpha male vs beta male" in the human context is too simplistic.

Someone who is "alpha" in one social context may be anything but in a different context. The great poets, writers, musicians, and artists of the ages likely would fail if forced to lead in a business or other contradictory setting. But they are still great. They're immortalized. And I assure you, many of them fucked their fair share of ladies. I don't think you have to obsess over being some kind of arbitrary, WWE-inspired "alpha male" in order to achieve greatness and get some pussy. So many roads to greatness...they don't all have to involve Axe Body Spray.

I mean, the term originated to help illustrate hierarchies within animal communities, usually no more than, what, like 15 members? Obviously there are still 'leaders' in human societies, but to pretend that the non-leaders or 'betas' in metropolises of 100,000 people or more are all the same, or are all going to be as deprived as some flea-bitten wolf runt, is far from accurate. Many of them are probably doing so well for themselves that I almost have to question if the distinction is even worth applying at all, when it comes to humans. We're talking an entire spectrum here. Not just alpha vs beta, black vs white.

<end rant>

nobody is alpha in all facets of life, and there will always be someone more alpha

obama wouldn't be much of an alpha male if he tried playing baseball, you know what i mean if you saw his pitch at the all star game

musicians like michael jackson were alphas in their career, but outside of music and entertainment he more than likely was a beta

it's all about learning to be more alpha within your own life and the people around you, even if it's the fast food restaurant a person works at or just around his 10 unemployed friends [Wink]

Posted by Michael P (Member # 1922) on :

quote:
Originally posted by 18th Floor:

I think the word Alpha sounds to macho for some guys in here. We should just call it "men who have it better with women than the rest of the male population who do not want to understand why that is."

i think this sums it up

Posted by GQguy (Member # 16534) on :

Good stuff!!

You guys are right! What is it about the artist, the poet, Obama that makes womens hearts swoon? Why do some men have countless women at their disposal while some have none.

Some would say it's wealth, and looks ect. I say no. I know rich guys that don't get laid. I know handsome guys that don't get dates. I know average looking guys that put me to shame on a regular basis. The common factor is confidence. But more importantly:..............

Ask yourself the question...what is bringing me back? What is killing my confidence? Ok. Now fix it. Change it. Or accept it. i.e. "im fat". Well I could lose the weight. Starting now. One must act in the present for this to work. Or I can accept my weight and love myslef for it. Either way you become a better person who is better able to love themselves..therefore better at loving others. You also become more "alpha". You are in control of your life. Obstacles exist only to be hurdled in your world. You are confident. You can now lead others past their own obstacles. Even in stressfull social situations where everyone is anxious you are in control. And thats where National's list of things alphas do comes into play. The list was a shortcut without the inner building. Building from within is nessesary.

I see some guys say foot fetish ruins my sex life. Well fix it! Use your ingenuity to figure out a way. There;s always a way.

Good convo so far guys. We're getting somewhere. Hopefully some other guys are picking up some good info!

GQguy

Posted by Athena K (Member # 33809) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Michael P:

GQ [/qb]

his "girlfriend" lives on a different continent

he has never spoken to her in person, he has never touched her, he might meet her next christmas

if that doesn't scream BETA i don't know what does

him arguing this is downright laughable and trying to convince him to think alpha is as hopeless as trying to convince lexington steele to fuck men on camera instead of women

he only puts down the alpha mindset because it is something he could never understand

his posts in this thread should be ignored [/QB][/QUOTE]

You are a bully and narcissist. Honest to God every time i read one of your posts I can feel my blood boil. Apart from a few posts I have made to you (not as a habitual retaliation to your snide remarks, but as one off appeals, often in defence) I avoid you whenever possible, but when I saw you posting in an alpha male thread I’m sorry, but I had to respond.

The alpha male theory is Neanderthalic, founded when big strong men were needed to clock woolly mammoths on the head while their cave wives made the salad. One man would have to do clocking while the other men, I don’t know, distracted the rest of the herd or whatever (being the ‘betas‘ that have so quickly and thoroughly been criticised in this thread, though I would have liked to see Alpha take the mammoth down alone). Naturally the biggest, strongest man became the hero of the hunt and as such got the cave wife with the biggest tits.

Fast forward to now. Donald Trump-type characters excepted, all men lean on other men for help in the business world (I’m going to, for the moment, ignore the glaring oversight of strong women who manage to become 'alphas'). The 'greed is good' mentality of the 80s has, in my opinion, been surpassed by a worldwide realisation that strength lies in, if not unity at least allegiance. As someone who does not pretend to know a lot about the economic or business world, my comments on this will be somewhat generalised, but though there are 'faces' to companies, the idea of a single person being top dog seems naive (again, Donald Trump types aside). Companies are built on a foundation of strong partners and it could only really be due to the muscling out of helping hands that leads to a single benefiting party.

Which leads me to my next point. Alpha's are bullies. they are the quintessential douche bags. They alienate anyone they may have been able to foster a true friendship with, as one of the defining features of alpha males is that they perceive themselves to be a superior class of person. While that is excellent in a leadership capacity, one cannot enter a friend/relationship on the premise that one half of it is fundamentally better/stronger than the other. Women might go home with them more often in bars, but they are also often the men who end up sad and alone in later life, or fondling their 25 year old wife’s new breasts. I do not believe for a second that there are not men who would be quite happy, once their looks have faded and all the women that were once drawn to them naturally, now have to paid for (either by the hour or otherwise). but the fact that they are happy with it doesn’t make them any less douche-y. Any self respecting women (who truly wanted a loving relationship, not a fuck buddy, a sugar daddy, a business partner or a green card) would kick to the curb. To be protected is one thing, to be controlled is another.

Anticipating your response to that; 'a true alpha male does not rely on physical appearance to pull women/friends. He simply commands them.' I ask: ‘What kind of friends?’ The women would be stroking your Armani-clad, Rolex’d arm, while you tell her where to eat, when to eat, what to buy, what to wear, when to take it off... all the while fucking the pool boy in stilettos you paid for. The men will laugh at your jokes and light your cigars, while imagining kicking you in the crotch.

This may be a rant, but I’ve gone past caring. The traditional alpha male is a self-promoting, narcisstic, bullying, arrogant jerk. I have no doubt that that commands a certain level of awe, fear and perhaps, in some women, lust. But it cannot command trust, love, compassion or true respect. And i pity anyone who doesn’t know the difference.

In response to your insults to Andrew, I will not dignify them with an extended response. Only to say that you have no right to judge a relationship about which you know nothing, and even less right to judge a man. To recognise other people's strength does not diminish your own. A fatal flaw in the alpha mentality, and something that Andrew has realised and embraced.

P.S. every time you put "girlfriend" when referring to me when speaking to Andrew, you underline the fact that you're a narrow-minded prick.

GQ, i hope my interpretation of the alpha male adds something to your discussion.

Posted by Michael P (Member # 1922) on :

quote:
Originally posted by GQguy:
Good stuff!!

You guys are right! What is it about the artist, the poet, Obama that makes womens hearts swoon? Why do some men have countless women at their disposal while some have none.

Some would say it's wealth, and looks ect. I say no. I know rich guys that don't get laid. I know handsome guys that don't get dates. I know average looking guys that put me to shame on a regular basis. The common factor is confidence. But more importantly:..............

Ask yourself the question...what is bringing me back? What is killing my confidence? Ok. Now fix it. Change it. Or accept it. i.e. "im fat". Well I could lose the weight. Starting now. One must act in the present for this to work. Or I can accept my weight and love myslef for it. Either way you become a better person who is better able to love themselves..therefore better at loving others. You also become more "alpha". You are in control of your life. Obstacles exist only to be hurdled in your world. You are confident. You can now lead others past their own obstacles. Even in stressfull social situations where everyone is anxious you are in control. And thats where National's list of things alphas do comes into play. The list was a shortcut without the inner building. Building from within is nessesary.

I see some guys say foot fetish ruins my sex life. Well fix it! Use your ingenuity to figure out a way. There;s always a way.

Good convo so far guys. We're getting somewhere. Hopefully some other guys are picking up some good info!

GQguy

great post as always

i really don't think looks are important at all to chicks when you are alpha as someone like obama, who is super alpha

Posted by Michael P (Member # 1922) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Athena K:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Michael P:

GQ

quote:
You are a bully and narcissist. Honest to God every time i read one of your posts I can feel my blood boil. Apart from a few posts I have made to you (not as a habitual retaliation to your snide remarks, but as one off appeals, often in defence) I avoid you whenever possible, but when I saw you posting in an alpha male thread I’m sorry, but I had to respond.

The alpha male theory is Neanderthalic, founded when big strong men were needed to clock woolly mammoths on the head while their cave wives made the salad. One man would have to do clocking while the other men, I don’t know, distracted the rest of the herd or whatever (being the ‘betas‘ that have so quickly and thoroughly been criticised in this thread, though I would have liked to see Alpha take the mammoth down alone). Naturally the biggest, strongest man became the hero of the hunt and as such got the cave wife with the biggest tits.

Fast forward to now. Donald Trump-type characters excepted, all men lean on other men for help in the business world (I’m going to, for the moment, ignore the glaring oversight of strong women who manage to become 'alphas'). The 'greed is good' mentality of the 80s has, in my opinion, been surpassed by a worldwide realisation that strength lies in, if not unity at least allegiance. As someone who does not pretend to know a lot about the economic or business world, my comments on this will be somewhat generalised, but though there are 'faces' to companies, the idea of a single person being top dog seems naive (again, Donald Trump types aside). Companies are built on a foundation of strong partners and it could only really be due to the muscling out of helping hands that leads to a single benefiting party.

Which leads me to my next point. Alpha's are bullies. they are the quintessential douche bags. They alienate anyone they may have been able to foster a true friendship with, as one of the defining features of alpha males is that they perceive themselves to be a superior class of person. While that is excellent in a leadership capacity, one cannot enter a friend/relationship on the premise that one half of it is fundamentally better/stronger than the other. Women might go home with them more often in bars, but they are also often the men who end up sad and alone in later life, or fondling their 25 year old wife’s new breasts. I do not believe for a second that there are not men who would be quite happy, once their looks have faded and all the women that were once drawn to them naturally, now have to paid for (either by the hour or otherwise). but the fact that they are happy with it doesn’t make them any less douche-y. Any self respecting women (who truly wanted a loving relationship, not a fuck buddy, a sugar daddy, a business partner or a green card) would kick to the curb. To be protected is one thing, to be controlled is another.

Anticipating your response to that; 'a true alpha male does not rely on physical appearance to pull women/friends. He simply commands them.' I ask: ‘What kind of friends?’ The women would be stroking your Armani-clad, Rolex’d arm, while you tell her where to eat, when to eat, what to buy, what to wear, when to take it off... all the while fucking the pool boy in stilettos you paid for. The men will laugh at your jokes and light your cigars, while imagining kicking you in the crotch.

This may be a rant, but I’ve gone past caring. The traditional alpha male is a self-promoting, narcisstic, bullying, arrogant jerk. I have no doubt that that commands a certain level of awe, fear and perhaps, in some women, lust. But it cannot command trust, love, compassion or true respect. And i pity anyone who doesn’t know the difference.

In response to your insults to Andrew, I will not dignify them with an extended response. Only to say that you have no right to judge a relationship about which you know nothing, and even less right to judge a man. To recognise other people's strength does not diminish your own. A fatal flaw in the alpha mentality, and something that Andrew has realised and embraced.

P.S. every time you put "girlfriend" when referring to me when speaking to Andrew, you underline the fact that you're a narrow-minded prick.

GQ, i hope my interpretation of the alpha male adds something to your discussion

as a 19 year old female, you are even less qualified to talk about an alpha than andy

not an insult, that's just the way it is

maybe i'll post a "you're so hot i love your pics" comment in one of your 11879494 pic threads where you are seeking male attention, then you'll think i'm a decent guy, right?

ps i've heard the "you're an asshole douchebag" line before from women and guess who they eventually ended up having sex with [Wink]

Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Michael P:
as a 19 year old female, you are even less qualified to talk about an alpha than andy

not an insult, that's just the way it is

Well...confronting you about it is what an "alpha" does...so I'm now an "alpha". Oh that has changed my life...then again...I guess I better keep logic and evidence out of it. Make it easier for you to...well, lie.

quote:
maybe i'll post a "you're so hot i love your pics" comment in one of your 11879494 pic threads where you are seeking male attention, then you'll think i'm a decent guy, right?

Or maybe make SOME sort of contribution to the boards that isn't just disagreeing with things wherever possible. Basically our relationship, make what you will of it, has produced more to the boards than you have.

quote:
ps i've heard the "you're an asshole douchebag" line before from women and guess who they eventually ended up having sex with

Annnnnd I wonder where they are now [Smile]

Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :

quote:
Originally posted by Michael P:
when you argue with a fool, you become a fool yourself

Especially when the fool presents evidence you can't dispute with your opinion, eh?
Solution: don't respond and make up some excuse as to why you haven't.

quote:
this is out of your league

If you say so... [Roll Eyes]

quote:
i like how you are dodging gqguy's post, it shows your "e-vendetta" against me, along with your sig

I like how you dodged mine. You know the one where you said "his posts in this thread should be ignored"? [Big Grin]

Hehe I bet you don't like that I found a moment of weakness in one of your posts; a pathetic attempt to save face when you've clearly lost. It's just a favourite quote of mine is all. Can't help it.

Like I've said before, I have no opinions of you particularly one way or the other, I just like to show you up in your twisting of words as much as I can to show people that...well...let them make up their minds [Smile]

I do admit to a slight of twisted pleasure that you get so worked up by being proven wrong though...guilty pleasure I suppose.

And I didn't see his post - I'll check it out now.

Posted by Andy-Laa (Member # 31511) on :

quote:
Originally posted by GQguy:
I've read your post and I see that you think the alpha male theory is crap/fake ect. Thats great!

There seems to be a misinterpretation here...I don't believe it's fake in the way you're implying (if I'm understanding your post) You're saying that I don't believe it works. Wrong.
For the short-term, yes it works.

You create a fake person who's not you in order to be popular. Yes this may appeal to people not very popular when they were younger (such as Michael P - I'm not having a go - he said himself he was an "insecure teen"), but I just don't see the appeal. Unless you're a power-hungry maniac, why do you need to fake your way through life?

You can't be truly "alpha" if you have to follow a guide - you can only act it. That's all I was saying. How long can you keep the act up though?