posted
A couple of points about the idea of universal health care in the United States:
1. F-18 just said that they pay nearly 75% of their income to tax. That's what pays for the "free" health care everyone would have.
2. Fix the tort system for medical malpractice before you even think of providing affordable health care to 300 million people. I've said it before, you can not sue a doctor for every blameless bad outcome or sue health systems for hundreds of millions of dollars and then expect them to provide good and affordable healthcare. It's impossible. That's why they don't have so many scum sucking trial lawyers in countries like Britain and Canada.
posted
lambskin, I meant that 75% of the gas price goes to the government in the form of tax. Overall, the average tax burden on me, being what is now known in demographic terms as an IPOD (Insecure, Pressured, Overtaxed & Debt-ridden), is nearly 48% . Which means that Income Tax, National Insurance (our medicare), VAT (sales tax), Council Tax (for services like police, fire, local government) and indirect & marginal taxation accounts for nearly half of my gross income. In March this year, the Telegraph ran a story claiming that the tax burden was the highest in history.
Lambskin is right, though, about where the tax goes. Our National Health Service is the largest employer in Europe and accounts for almost £105 billion of our tax take, which is equivalent to nearly 20% of overall tax receipts (see www.hm-treasury.gov.uk/media/C/8/bud07_chapterc_288.pdf at p.218). In other words, every man, woman and child in the UK pays an AVERAGE of £1,750 per year in tax so that we can have a 'free' health service. And the government spends something like £300 per year on people in my age bracket, 25-35. Truth is, they wasted all the billions they were supposed to have invested by spending it not on beds and hospitals and nursing staff but on inflation-busting pay increases and higher-level management. I don't call that value for money at all. Suddenly, private healthcare doesn't seem such a bad idea after all.
posted
My apoligies F18, I thought that 75% sounded pretty high for income tax. Your point is still well taken though. Nearly 50% of your gross income goes to your government. Here, our highest tax bracket pays 35% for income tax. http://www.edwardjones.com/cgi/getHTML.cgi?page=/USA/resources/tax/brackets_last_year.html#individuals Most middle class people pay around 15-25%. I can't imagine what the public would do here in the States if there was a sharp, across the board tax increase to the likes of what is paid in the UK. Suddenly the idea of "free" healthcare wouldn't seem so cheap.
Posts: 475 | Registered: Jan 2004
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posted
No worries Lambskin. I wish my tax rate was as little as yours. Our tax works lie this: National Insurance (11%) on all earnings above £100 per week, + income tax per the table on this page. Whatever is left is then subject to 17.5% Value-added tax. Other indirect taxes (although the government don't call them as such) include:
fuel duty (currently around 50% of the pump price which is nearly £4.40 ($9) a gallon. VAT is payable on this 50% meaning that our fuel tax is equivalent to 59%!
Road Fund Licence (road tax), flat rate of £180 ($360) per year
cigarette duty. 20 smokes costs abour £5.50 ($11). Of this, 60% is tax.
TV licence. Crazy, isn't it? We must by law pay the government £135.50 ($271) per year just to watch TV (but this money funds the BBC)
Alcohol duty. A pint costs £2.90 ($6). Of that, 31% is tax.
Council Tax, which is 'banded' according to the value of your home. It varies from county to county but for me is nearly £2,000 per year.
Inheritance Tax: only applicable to estates valued at over £300,000 (which is most of us now, given that property prices are so high) and payable at a rate of 40% of the value excess of £300,000. So if an estate is valued at £400,000, tax liability would be 40% of &100K
These are just some of the ways our government extrts money from us. As you can see, tax bills suck up an awful lot of my gross income.
Posts: 343 | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Yeah now tell us what you make per hour...I guarantee it's not an American average wage of $10/hour..you would be homeless at that point with all the taxes and gas prices.
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Currently right now here in Canada I am making $9 an hour. In less than 2 weeks I will be making double that! For once in my life I will not have to live from cheque to cheque. Sad that it takes that dollar amount to not live cheque to cheque..but in this day and age $9 an hour doesnt cut it...take into consideration rent,cable/tv/telephone bill, AND then food! Not to mention the taxes that are taken out of my cheque..Every two weeks I get about 500-600$..that is AFTER taxes..BEFORE taxes I make about $750!! So that is about 150 or more taken out right off the bat from my cheque...but starting my new job in two weeks is going to relieve a LOT of money problems! Our Canadian dollar is stronger than ever..currently stronger than the American dollar..first time in 31 years!! That is the talk of the newspaper's these days up here...everyone wanting to go down to the states to shop because of the parity. But yet we still are not seeing the prices drop of imported items...
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You know what is the greatest thing about this? We have the right to view WU's or anything else we want and to comment and let our thoughts be known on all subjects. Not many places in the world can you do this. It is great to be a United States citizen. Just remember ladies and gentlemen, freedom isn't free.
Posts: 169 | Registered: Mar 2007
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alright. i want to point out something as an American, ozkar and the person he/she was arguing with on the first page were both right in my opinion, but important to me is what ozkar said about noone taking responsibility in this country. i dont want to offend anyone here and if i do i will immediately stop, we are all footlovers and a lot of nice people, thats why im in here. but i think you can look at the whole history of the world-> america and see the problems we have were a long time coming. lets contrast eastern thought with western thought (just for AN example im not saying that these two groups represent the whole human race), quite simply in religious practices, western trends have always been to personify something outside of human experience that helps and keeps things in order, while eastern practices have mostly taught the importance of self reliance, self responsibility and that in our experience there is an order (not personified) that we have to adhere to not that will adhere to us. the problem as i see it with the western trend has been that people dont take the ultimate responsibility for their actions, and can act dangerously and with little rational thought based on great 'leaps of faith' and so forth, also western traditions have generally been concerned much more with after death then eastern, which have generally been most concerned with the present moment. so of course in western traditions it has been easier for people to act with passion out of grand notions about life and death and the 'human story' or whatever it may be called rather than taking more careful note of the simple reasons that problems might come about in human relations, etc. so when people came from europe to america the whole foundations of this country were built on largely romantic ideas of freedom and naiive assumptions that right was right and wrong was wrong and (this is my opinion and it may be off color for some of you ill give you that) that 'freedom' is this semi- adolescent notion of doing whatever one wants. there has never been emphasis on many types of mental discipline in this country or in the history of western society, so freedom is equated in some ways with going with the mind's every whim and desire. now.... im not saying that i dont love living in america, or that i think a democracy doesnt work, or even that i have much of a strong opinion about this stuff, (i really dont, i just see these things objectively to me), or that the people who came over to america fit the exact descriptions i was talkign about, of course they came over to get away from being controlled by a monarch and have every aspect of their lives controlled, which i think is much worse than anything i can imagine and is only natural human behavior. all i am saying is that the idea of OUR democracy that we dont let change and grow is this emotional and passionate thing that has been taken advantage of throughout our history to now, what has happened with the spirit of capitalism in this country is a classic example of 'you cant have your cake and eat it too, it is a country where it is kind of every man for himself to make a living, open their own business and make as much money as they want, which is great, but if you know people, you know this is gonna produce some real pricks out there who want more and more and more money for themselves, and in our society where no importance is placed on mental discipline, there can be no end to this mentality and these people will do anything to any other people to get want they want, sacrificing people, hurting people. obviously its a sickness. and it is only logical that these people can get into positions of controlling all kinds of aspects of our lives that we dont want them to, because in our society of 'more more more everybody has a chance to make it', people are all too eager to take the payoffs. it all makes perfect sense with history. there is not even a thought now in our country with the average american of whether the latest gadget or material objects= a great life, or a 'better' life than those without it. its like when someone said we have it better than most, our lower class has cell phones and nicer clothes (??) how does that make those people better off than anybody, im sure the value placed on those things makes them much worse off than a poor person who wants less in another country. sorry i just dont agree. anyway im going on a rant now, i guess im basically saying only a couple of things... america's problems in my opinion have been a long time coming, and i believe that the real issues we face today have the most to do with americans' lack of mental discipline. again if this stuff offends people i wont say anything else, but if anybody thinks that me saying stuff like this is anti-american, youve gotta realize that america wouldnt be america without people criticizing it, thats a fact.
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