posted
Talos, I don't think anything you say or all the facts in the world can ever change some folks' minds sadly. They and their president will learn the hard way probably twice...once when they TRY to take guns away and the other time once they do the gun violence rates skyrocket because all of the underground street gun buying exploding and every criminal getting a hold on these 'assualt rifles'. Sadly an "I told you so" moment will come but with much blood on their hands and a day late dollar short.
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Join thousands of our fans on Twitter @Norcalfeetdotco Posts: 18305 | Registered: Apr 2003
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bluetoelover
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posted
I get a kick out of the pro gun people that claim "its to protect us from our government". If you need to worry about your government like that maybe its time to get the fuck outta the country your in....or arm yourself with weapons like a small platoon
And come to think of it, IF the govt takes away all civilian AR's for example and it is indeed pushed "underground" isn't that better then being able to let a whackjob go to fucking Walmart and load up on it with no hassle? I mean, take for example the latest incident, you think that Lanza kid would have been able to find an "underground" dealer?
Not the greatest analogy I know but you get what I'm saying right? The guys that go and commit these horrendous acts aren't usually the most sane individuals...usually loner types not your criminally connected types. So the chances of them finding an underground connection would be a helluva lot harder then them just walking into their local Walmart and loading up on supplies just by presenting ID. And if that alone prevents another mass shooting then fuck why WOULDN'T we support the bill?
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quote: And come to think of it, IF the govt takes away all civilian AR's for example and it is indeed pushed "underground" isn't that better then being able to let a whackjob go to fucking Walmart and load up on it with no hassle? I mean, take for example the latest incident, you think that Lanza kid would have been able to find an "underground" dealer?
My brain short circuited a little when I tried to comprehend your reasoning on this. It's not hassle free AT ALL when you go anywhere to buy an AR-15. There's at least a 10 day waiting period and a long "application" type form to fill out for any firearms purchase (not to mention the stringent background checks they do already) and the fact you have to be 21 to purchase one.
If the kid had the balls to murder 26 people cold blood style, he probably would be able to find someone to sell him whatever he needed being as scared and angry as he was. There's alot of "what-if's" and "coulda-been's" as well.
quote: Not the greatest analogy I know but you get what I'm saying right? The guys that go and commit these horrendous acts aren't usually the most sane individuals...usually loner types not your criminally connected types. So the chances of them finding an underground connection would be a helluva lot harder then them just walking into their local Walmart and loading up on supplies just by presenting ID. And if that alone prevents another mass shooting then fuck why WOULDN'T we support the bill?
Bro, you don't have to be criminally connected to buy these guns. I could probably have one from the underground with one phone call and I am no where near a criminally connected. I can also just as easy purchase one from a dealer or retail hunting store. I'm glad I can help you understand the walmart thing, clearly you haven't ever tried to buy one legally OR illegally. No matter how many bills are passed, this will continue...and no one will give up their guns, ever. It's a lose/lose if they try.
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Join thousands of our fans on Twitter @Norcalfeetdotco Posts: 18305 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
Here are some things I just like to add in a bullet list:
- Most people don't even know what makes an assualt rifle an assualt rifle. You can turn a hunting rifle into one by just adding a fancy pistol grip.
- Semi-automatic means shoots ONE bullet at a time. Fully-automatic means machine gun.
- When the right to bear arms was put in it was indeed so people did NOT fear their government. And if people think a government could NEVER turn on their own people, look at the world around you at some point.
- When video games weren't around what was it that caused all this? Oh it was music. Before that, movies. Before that, comic books. Please, it's always an excuse.
- It's funny that many politicians think we should take away assualt rifles from our own country, but yet OUR country constantly gives them to other countries around the world to battle tyranny and governments we oppose.
- Lets ban guns and that will solve so many problems. It's like when we outlawed all these drugs. Good thing no one ever has cocaine, esctasy, speed, acid, etc. now that laws exist to outlaw them.
- Most gun crimes are commited with handguns, not semi-automatic rifles.
- If the public isn't allowed to own semi-automatic rifles, or even military grade fully automatic weapons, do you think criminals will cease to have them? Would it even make a significant amount of a dent in the amount of crimes they might be used in?
- Less people die from gun violence than alcohol and drug deaths. Maybe if the media made a bigger deal out of those we'd have people crying for stricter policies on those?
All these points aren't to say what happened up north and in many other schools over the years wasn't bad. It was. But there is a bigger picture than knee jerk reactions about it being video games, gun laws, etc. Since man was on this earth they've killed one another. They will always find ways to do this. Again, there is no simple "ban this" attitude.
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posted
I've given up on the "gun" debate. Just like Rider's illustration points out, no matter how many gun massacres there is it still won't change the mind of pro-gun people. Sad really.
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posted
it's really about hiding behind an outdated section of the constitution. it was written over 200 years ago and based on the then current situation. we have about as much in common with that society as our cell phones have in common with a telegraph. we are constantly updating our laws and our rights. why is it insane to think that perhaps we need to review the second amendment and update it to fit our modern society? does it really still hold the same intent? how many gun owners out there really keeps arms "to guarantee the Peoples' right of protection against a tyrannical gov't"?? i'm not a government or history buff, but its seems it pretty much common sense that you can't live by the same exact laws for over 200 years without some kind of modernization. even the catholic church has tried to amend some of it's 'rules' and if men who writing the word of god could be updated, perhaps our forefathers could use some updating. i also dont claim to have the answer to what that would be but it seems obvious as hell to me that the current situation is a fucking disaster. background checks are bullshit. gun classes are bullshit.
the whole argument about banning guns making an underground market thrive and keeping them from the hands of real gun owners is a kind of weak. the comparison to illegal drugs is even weaker. we cant be afraid to take measures to limit ownership or whatever because we're afraid of what might happen. using that logic, lets legalize all drugs. lets sell heroin at walmart. we can dispense crack out of vending machines. how about you drop a dollar in a machine in a public bathroom and is get a snort of coke preloaded on a disposable spoon? lets do away with speed limits too cause you know 99.8% of drivers out there are speeding and not getting caught. i mean speed limits dont work anyway. online piracy? bah.. pretty much no one gets caught for that so legalize it! fuck, lets find any that difficult to enforce law and do away with it.. because it's.. just.. too.. hard!
again, i dont have any answers but it seems to me that pretending there isn't a problem is utterly ignorant.
posted
No one is pretending there isn't a problem, nusuth. But when people throw out a blanket statement like "BAN ALL ASSUALT RIFLES," and they don't even KNOW what an assualt rifle is, is bullcrap too. I bet not even half of the people who say that know what one is. Every time I hear someone say that they say it's a machine gun. Assualt rifle is the fancy lingo made to scare people. If there is going to be laws made, then good. But they HAVE TO MAKE SENSE! None of this everything is bad bullcrap. For instance:
These are the SAME GUN, but one is an assualt rifle
Here are some of the much hated AK-47 variants, but because you don't have a pistol grip on Model E, it's NOT an assualt rifle:
Again, everyone has a right to their opinions and I'm the type that says to look at things from both sides to make a more logical choice.
For those who care to know some of the assualt rifle classifications and differences from normal rifles, this is a pretty good breakdown:
posted
Underground gun markets thriving whenever these bans and bills are introduced are a REALITY, not a "weak argument". I know that American Idol and the latest gossip from Kim Kardashian may have you distracted but the real world is still turning outside the dank cave some people live in even if they don't want to accept some of life's harshest realities.
Patrick, I really like variant A and E in that diagram. Pistol grip or not it is foolish to simply classify it as an assault weapon just because of that. I don't know anyone who can fire an AK pointing it like a pistol and assualt more than the tops of trees and the ceiling because of recoil much less do any damage to crowds of people anyway lol...ok maybe Arnold can lol.
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Join thousands of our fans on Twitter @Norcalfeetdotco Posts: 18305 | Registered: Apr 2003
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quote:No one is pretending there isn't a problem, nusuth
oh, i disagree. listen to the NRA, listen to anyone here in this thread alone who is hiding behind the 2nd amendment. i am fairly ignorant when it comes to firearms but mostly because i have no interest in them.. which is why i dont make ignorant statements like "ban all assault rifles." i also hate hearing the opposite side saying inane comments like "guns dont kill people, people kill people." i do agree with you though that knee jerk reactions arent going to solve issues.
quote:Underground gun markets thriving whenever these bans and bills are introduced are a REALITY, not a "weak argument". I know that American Idol and the latest gossip from Kim Kardashian may have you distracted but the real world is still turning outside the dank cave some people live in even if they don't want to accept some of life's harshest realities.
odd.. i never claimed it wouldnt be a reality. my statement was that using the logic that since a law might be difficult to enforce, it's not worth creating is weak. then again your childish rebuttal about being distracted by pop culture and, therefore, out of touch just illustrates your mindset. you cant come up with a mature and logic response so stoop to throwing rocks.
quote: which is why i dont make ignorant statements
Except when it's regarding the second ammendment or using a media talking point claim that defenders of their own property are "hiding" behind the 2nd ammendment. No actually, we're all standing quite tall behind it not cowaring behind school desks losing our lives as if we didn't have protection.
quote: odd.. i never claimed it wouldnt be a reality. my statement was that using the logic that since a law might be difficult to enforce, it's not worth creating is weak. then again your childish rebuttal about being distracted by pop culture and, therefore, out of touch just illustrates your mindset. you cant come up with a mature and logic response so stoop to throwing rocks.
So by your logic with all due respect..we should maybe create laws preventing the Alien Citizen of Mars' Child Anti-Slavery act JUST in case we ever found life on Mars and JUST in case they had children that someone might abduct into slavery...oh ok, that was too far out there for you huh? ....How about just a law banning car tires with tire tread less than 99% because that's 1% closer to having tire failure?That's essentially the knee-jerk reaction from Psycho Nazi witches like Feinstein are trying to justify because they simply don't understand how the real world works.
Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda...they've tryed it in other countries and failed. Never going to be successful with taking guns away from Criminals or the lawful public owners nor is it a weak argument..so says the 200+ million gun owners who didn't go on a rampage today.
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Join thousands of our fans on Twitter @Norcalfeetdotco Posts: 18305 | Registered: Apr 2003
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posted
wow. someone needs some help in reading comprehension.
there is no 'just in case' in my arguments. there is a real problem that those that do hide behind the 2nd amendment chose to ignore. countries that have stricter gun control laws have less gun violence. period. we are having far too many incidents of some fucktard grabbing guns, whether they are the owners of said guns or not, and shooting up random people in public places. keep your mantra of 'it's my constitutional right to bear arms' and i'll continue to try and use actual logic.. although i am not sure why.
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