quote:Originally posted by Keyfeet: we are not hostile people.
You're right; it's just me.
To Johny's point: My favorite Beethoven piece is the Pathetique Sonata, First Movement. I'll have to take a listen to the 9th Symphony; though I prefer C minor to D minor.
C minor is just so...evil-sounding. I write in that key on guitar all the time.
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And, Keyfeet, I put specific boxes to tick as to what I would consider outstanding music - social context, deeper meaning etc. Modern music just doesn't seem to have that any more.
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just to clarify things, nothing i said was said with malice. i enjoy a damn good discussion.. but i also am disappointed when someone resorts to arbitrary or derogatory statements. oh, and Andy and i have talked a few times and i do respect him.. altho lately with the fake moon landing shit and now this.. i am starting to wonder if he's been wanking it to too many Athena pics with no real contact and going a bit mad.
quote:And I heard on QI that the person who mentions Hitler in a debate/argument/whatever you want to call it is considered to have instantly lost because you really can apply that man to any situation in any context.
ok, how about if change that whole paragraph and use GW Bush? he had alot of ideas and opinions and look what he accomplished. now perhaps you can refute that.
quote:You're telling me how I should say something - trying to take away that minute freedom I had.
not at all. i am just saying that if you want a discussion, you should try and use words that show you are looking for discussion.. ie, and open exchange of viewpoints and ideas. for example.. "i dont understand how anyone listens to pop music or even anything from the last decade and think that its of the same caliber as the classic rock or punk. it doesnt have the same message, etc etc ad naseum." when i read "all current music sucks and nothing from the last decade will ever last the test of time!" i think.. ok, and why would i waste time having a conversation with someone who wont even bother to listen or consider my point of view.
quote:You're telling me how I should say something - trying to take away that minute freedom I had.
omg, are you serious!?!?!? lmfao.. try mentioned guys feet in the main forum and you'll be torn to shreds. hell, as i have discussed plenty of times, my wife and i are swingers and you cant get much more open than that, right? well everything is well and dandy unless someone mentions guy on guy and watch the guys freak.
quote:the woman I love more than ANYTHING, Athena, disagrees with me about this stuff haha. I don't look down on her because of it.
sorry but when you are telling us that you think the music that we like is rubbish and has no value and is a passing fad.. somehow, i dont think that is said with alot of respect. hard to trash someone else's tastes and then say.. but i dont judge you for it. :laigh:
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You misunderstood my point in writing it’s an infringement of my rights. It was not a statement; it was an example. I clarified that in brackets after it. Context, context, context.
Bush had ideas? Huh.
[Moon landing – you’re unwilling to accept it *could* be faked. I can accept the possibility I could be wrong with that one, but I can’t find it in myself to believe it wasn’t at this moment in time, with the evidence provided – the link you dropped in that thread was very interesting and it did clear some of it up. Not all of it though in my opinion – last we’ll say about that for now.]
And, well come up with examples of songs of this decade that have had a major impact (equal to or greater than songs past). Base it on social context, social impact, political meaning, deeper lyrical meaning and the context of the time it was written and produced in.
I’ll go with: Bob Dylan – Tambourine Man The Beatles – Let It Be The Beatles – All You Need Is Love The Beatles – Helter Skelter The Beatles – Revolution Sex Pistols – Anarchy In The UK John Lennon – Imagine
And this is just me off the top of my head, I’d imagine you’d have to really search for yours (but then again, I don’t know if you will have to). It’s important to also note that this was the first time these topics had been covered in such a way. Harder to start something than it is to copy it 2 or 3 decades later.
Just that I have evidence to back it up is the main reason I’m so adamant: Rolling Stone Magazine’s 500 most influential/greatest songs of all time. It was revised in May 2010 to add to 2000s 0.2% of the total songs.
Note how damn close to 2/3 of the songs are from 1960-1979 from a GENERAL rock magazine – it doesn’t have leanings towards specific decades or genres – it reviews current music and (as far as I’m aware) is quite a political magazine proving it would have the relevant info as to the impact songs have on a society within the context of the time they were produced.
Plus…would I really have got a better response if I’d put “I don’t like modern music, but I know a lot of people do and that’s all right. Okay thank you, sorry to impose on you”? Bold statements, bold answers – I’m always ready to be proven wrong.
Only I could know if I looked down upon someone and I'm upset you think I do, but it's just basically "you are" "I'm not" "yes you are" "no I'm not"...so idk. I think it's become pretty clear over the years that I'm not really a deceitful person - I'm pretty straight - maybe you think overly so, but that's got to count for something when I say I am not lying surely?
Dead Boys - Ain't It Fun The Smithereens - Beyond The wall of Sleep Blue Oyster Cult - I Love the Night Replacements - Answering Machine Egyptian Lover - Egypt Egypt
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Well some of this thread I gave the tl;dr treatment. But I gathered that at somepoint someone thought that people who's 'favorite' songs change regularly are quite annoying, which I agree with. The songs I do consider on that list don't really change, and I doubt will. I couldn't pick one favorite song either, way to hard, but I'd consider these at the very top of the list, and in no particular order:
The Unforgiven ~ Metallica I am the Highway ~ Audioslave White Shadows ~ Coldplay Like a Stone ~ Audioslave Nothing Else Matters ~ Metallica Fix You ~ Coldplay High Hopes ~ Pink Floyd Hanuman ~ Rodrigo Y Gabriela
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Sorry Andy, but i just dont buy that as a concrete argument. its all arbitrary. you are judging a good song based on its 'major impact' and social context.. to me, i couldnt give two shits as to whether a song i like has any social context, any deeper meaning, blah blah. that criteria is what you feel is important to you. to me, if i like the way it sounds, thats all that matters to me.. and for it be a 'good' song, i have to still like it a couple of years later. i personally can not stand hearing bob dylans voice and i think squeezing a goat could produce a sound comparable to his voice and to me, the sound of a song is so much more important than the depth of its lyrics. if i want something deep, i'll read a book.
i mean if we use your points, that abortion of a song 'Don't They Know It's Christmas' by Band Aid should be in your top songs of all time. it brought world wide awareness to famine in ethiopia and raised millions. how can you have much more impact than that? oddly enough that song has been voted one of the worst songs of all time by more than a couple of critics and publications.
using rolling stone as 'evidence' is similar to using the bible to back up the existence of god. why should their opinions matter to me or carry any more weight than mine? because they write for a magazine? they are human with their own tastes and biases and faults. why not use kerrang's list of top songs of all time? are their opinions any less meaningful?
quote:would I really have got a better response if I’d put “I don’t like modern music, but I know a lot of people do and that’s all right. Okay thank you, sorry to impose on you”? Bold statements, bold answers – I’m always ready to be proven wrong.
hmmm.. not sure where i said anywhere that you should act like a pussy for making a statement and then apologize all i was saying is that you leave no room to any one else's opinion.. and you claim to respect others opinions but when you make black and white statements such as.. my music is the best and the rest is all rubbish and stupid (yes i am paraphrasing AND exaggerating ).. it sure doesnt sound like there is any respect there. you might respect the person but i dont see how you can respect their opinions and taste. if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
speaking of ducks.. none of this is meant ruffle feathers. i am trying to engage you in a discussion. i mean its really nice that you have such a strong opinion on your musical tastes but asking others to justify theirs by your standards.. kind of a useless exercise to others.
quote:Originally posted by nusuth: Sorry Andy, but i just dont buy that as a concrete argument. its all arbitrary. you are judging a good song based on its 'major impact' and social context.. to me, i couldnt give two shits as to whether a song i like has any social context, any deeper meaning, blah blah. that criteria is what you feel is important to you. to me, if i like the way it sounds, thats all that matters to me.. and for it be a 'good' song, i have to still like it a couple of years later. i personally can not stand hearing bob dylans voice and i think squeezing a goat could produce a sound comparable to his voice and to me, the sound of a song is so much more important than the depth of its lyrics. if i want something deep, i'll read a book.
i mean if we use your points, that abortion of a song 'Don't They Know It's Christmas' by Band Aid should be in your top songs of all time. it brought world wide awareness to famine in ethiopia and raised millions. how can you have much more impact than that? oddly enough that song has been voted one of the worst songs of all time by more than a couple of critics and publications.
using rolling stone as 'evidence' is similar to using the bible to back up the existence of god. why should their opinions matter to me or carry any more weight than mine? because they write for a magazine? they are human with their own tastes and biases and faults. why not use kerrang's list of top songs of all time? are their opinions any less meaningful?
quote:would I really have got a better response if I’d put “I don’t like modern music, but I know a lot of people do and that’s all right. Okay thank you, sorry to impose on you”? Bold statements, bold answers – I’m always ready to be proven wrong.
hmmm.. not sure where i said anywhere that you should act like a pussy for making a statement and then apologize all i was saying is that you leave no room to any one else's opinion.. and you claim to respect others opinions but when you make black and white statements such as.. my music is the best and the rest is all rubbish and stupid (yes i am paraphrasing AND exaggerating ).. it sure doesnt sound like there is any respect there. you might respect the person but i dont see how you can respect their opinions and taste. if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
speaking of ducks.. none of this is meant ruffle feathers. i am trying to engage you in a discussion. i mean its really nice that you have such a strong opinion on your musical tastes but asking others to justify theirs by your standards.. kind of a useless exercise to others.
I feel a fool for not mentioning the fact that I do listen to and enjoy SOME modern music. I'm quite a fan of Blur, for example. But their songs cannot be considered outstanding at all, and what I am talking about is outstanding music. The genre (technically a period of time, but referred to as a genre) classical was outstanding music.
The dawning of a new musical age and [near enough] a completely new genre being created - and for the first time - was outstanding.
Without old shit, you wouldn't have the new shit you're defending now. Starting blocks have more impact then refinement of pre-existing material.
And I mentioned Rolling Stone magazine because it is a general music magazine. It promotes Gaga as much as it did Zeppelin. And it sees that she's talented, yes, but not nearly in the same league.
You raise a very interesting point, I have to say about Band Aid. My personal view on it would be that they were really trying hard to make something big. I think if you try, it just isn't going to happen. Seems to be the case time and time again. Outstanding music just happens. Exceptions to every rule and all.
I heard Cream split up because the universe couldn't handle that much talent and awesomeness in one band.
[EDIT: and I'm just explaining my standards of rating it. From this I can deduce that this is one of the worst decades of music. That's where my opinion comes from]
quote:Originally posted by Andy-Laa: I heard Cream split up because the universe couldn't handle that much talent and awesomeness in one band.
Close enough.
So it wasn't "personal/artistic differences", or that usual tripe?
No-no. Non-existant God actually beamed light down on them while they were jamming "Tales Of Brave Ulysses" and said: "Thou shalt not rock so hardeth, lest thine very existence be tainted due to thine magnitude being greater than I, the lord, your God!" he said "Go now, and never look back"
Then Clapton did "Tears in Heaven" in the early 90s and God died.
True dat.
I actually looked into how much it would be to get him to play at my wedding...it said for stars as big as him between $5-10 million
quote:Without old shit, you wouldn't have the new shit you're defending now. Starting blocks have more impact then refinement of pre-existing material.
you are not getting this at all. i am not defending new music, old music, any music. i am defending the right of everyone to have their own tastes and not have to convince you otherwise.. especially since you are not even open to the idea that someone else might have a valid perspective. as i have said before, we cant 'defend' our tastes by your arbitrary standards and i personal dont want to nor care to. my first post on this topic pretty much summed it up. by using my standards your 'old shit' is just plain old shit if you look at classical music. so perhaps you should be defending your new fangled electric fad.
but i forgive you because i remember when i was in your age and felt that i needed to stand up and shout my viewpoints because i was always right. someday you'll probably calm down and open your mind up and realize that just because someone doesnt have the same opinions, it doesnt mean that they are wrong
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I find when someone says "This is my favo(u)rite song," it's usually referring to a short time period..like a week, or something like that.
I've had plenty of favorites, sometimes I like a specific song or even group/album much more than another and I'll listen to it on repeat for days or sometimes weeks.
People usually call something their favorite because they heard the song while something special was happening, or they were just in a good mood when it came on and it made it better somehow. Some songs/albums/artists/even genres can set a mood to be just "right" and when you hear it again another time, it reminds you of that time, and you remember it just being..awesome. So when you hear it again and it puts you back in that mindset, remembering what happened before and you just feel good. Of course this can happen with sad things or things that made you angry, or just whatever. A lot of people have stories behind a lot of songs they like and I don't understand your topic saying what it says.
But your post was different(@OP, Andy). Of course your favorite bands are going to be your favorite bands until you die, if not the entirety of them being around, then at least a specific time period(saying this using Metallica, for example, since a lot of people will say "Oh, I like old Metallica, but not the new stuff)."
tl;dr People will basically call something their favorite because they really like that song at one specific time, next week they're probably going to enjoy another song more than that one.
I enjoy absolutely all kinds of music and I constantly find more groups/albums/songs which I enjoy, so everything is mood dependent for me.
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quote:Originally posted by nusuth: you are not getting this at all. i am not defending new music, old music, any music. i am defending the right of everyone to have their own tastes and not have to convince you otherwise..
Well if all that's the case, then don't even look at a topic you don't want to talk about would be the strongest argument. The point of this is strong discussion which it has sparked.
quote:Originally posted by PublicName: I find when someone says "This is my favo(u)rite song," it's usually referring to a short time period..like a week, or something like that.
I've had plenty of favorites, sometimes I like a specific song or even group/album much more than another and I'll listen to it on repeat for days or sometimes weeks.
People usually call something their favorite because they heard the song while something special was happening, or they were just in a good mood when it came on and it made it better somehow. Some songs/albums/artists/even genres can set a mood to be just "right" and when you hear it again another time, it reminds you of that time, and you remember it just being..awesome. So when you hear it again and it puts you back in that mindset, remembering what happened before and you just feel good. Of course this can happen with sad things or things that made you angry, or just whatever. A lot of people have stories behind a lot of songs they like and I don't understand your topic saying what it says.
But your post was different(@OP, Andy). Of course your favorite bands are going to be your favorite bands until you die, if not the entirety of them being around, then at least a specific time period(saying this using Metallica, for example, since a lot of people will say "Oh, I like old Metallica, but not the new stuff)."
tl;dr People will basically call something their favorite because they really like that song at one specific time, next week they're probably going to enjoy another song more than that one.
I enjoy absolutely all kinds of music and I constantly find more groups/albums/songs which I enjoy, so everything is mood dependent for me.
Thank you for the "u"
And yeah, this topic went off in a bit of a tangent,which is fine - it's all related - the main point was use yoo werdz wisely. Then it digressed...
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ok, how about if change that whole paragraph and use GW Bush? he had alot of ideas and opinions and look what he accomplished. now perhaps you can refute that. ![[Tongue]](tongue.gif)
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