quote:Originally posted by sanlucas: If you had the power to deport the 14 million illegal aliens, would you?
Yes.
*runs from Sasha*
*edit: Actually, I'm pressed for time, or I'd go into an explanation for my reasons. I'll be glad to defend the stance if the topic continues. Just let me say now that bigotry isn't one of those reasons...if I were a bigot, I'd be at the wrong forum because from what I've observed us European whites are pretty much a minority around here.
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Begin a minority myself, and actually having a father who had to come here illegally for a while just to get ahead in life (Im mexican), im gonna go ahead and say No to that. We dont take jobs, we just do the jobs the majority is too lazy to do or think theyre too good for. Recently Ive been sparked by immigration, racism, and affirmative action debates, and it annoys me to see people so close minded because for once in their life, theyre at the short end of the stick. It is a VERY sensitive issue with me, and I dont mean to offend any majority people here, but I've had to deal with way too many racist and prejuciced idiots in my life to let this topic slide. Feel free to argue my case. 14 million people leave? The economy drops. Where they gonna go? Theyre not all from Mexico. South America, Asia. Think about it in reverse. If the US were a third world country and you were one border away from doing the same job for A LOT more pay, would you do it? Dont fucking tell me you wouldnt.
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quote:Originally posted by mystik: Begin a minority myself, and actually having a father who had to come here illegally for a while just to get ahead in life (Im mexican), im gonna go ahead and say No to that. We dont take jobs, we just do the jobs the majority is too lazy to do or think theyre too good for. Recently Ive been sparked by immigration, racism, and affirmative action debates, and it annoys me to see people so close minded because for once in their life, theyre at the short end of the stick. It is a VERY sensitive issue with me, and I dont mean to offend any majority people here, but I've had to deal with way too many racist and prejuciced idiots in my life to let this topic slide. Feel free to argue my case. 14 million people leave? The economy drops. Where they gonna go? Theyre not all from Mexico. South America, Asia. Think about it in reverse. If the US were a third world country and you were one border away from doing the same job for A LOT more pay, would you do it? Dont fucking tell me you wouldnt.
Well, it looks like I'll have to keep my opinion to myself on this one...
*edit: Ah to hell with it, I can't keep my opinion to myself on this issue either.
Now Brother mystik, before I say anything, just know that I don't have anything against you or your viewpoint. If I were in your shoes, I'd probably feel much the same way, if not exactly the same way...
Here's where I take exception to your stance, however... "We dont take jobs, we just do the jobs the majority is too lazy to do or think theyre too good for."
This is a two-fold problem here, because I agree that you're not "taking" jobs, but at the same time just because these bureaucratic paper-pushing employers are only out for the almighty dollar and cashing in on this "legalized slavery" doesn't make this a good benefit for anybody but the rich. You're saying that people are too lazy to work certain jobs, but the fact remains that yes, there are some lazy Americans out there, but then there are some hard-working Americans that can't make ends meet going on the wages they're paid for certain jobs. I'm a single man having to work two jobsd to make ends meet, and I'm not living some posh life-style. If a man moves on from one job where he was previously making $7.00 an hour to a job where he can make $9.00 an hour, how is that being lazy?
At the same time, if a bunch of immigrants get into a workplace making the $7.00 and never complain about it, but the Americans working along side them do complain, again, how is that being lazy?
Every-so-often you'll see a story on the news where a group of 25 or so immigrants are getting evicted from a one bedroom apartment...naturally, under those living conditions an immigrant can afford to live on "slave wages", whereas a person and their family with house and car payments can't.
I understand your anger at people blaming immigrants for the whole problem, but to be fair to these likewise angry people (because you're only asking for fairness in return, right?), you need to cut them a little slack and understand that it's only human to take issue with what you SEE. Folks aren't seeing these fat-cat cocksuckers cashing in on the illegal immigrants willing to work for next to nothing.
I understand wanting a better life for yourself, therefore wanting to cross a border by any means necessary. However, where the government is wrong is in allowing so many illegals to "slip by". Personally, I think the borders are being purposefully weakened because, again, there's too much money to be had for the few in illegal immigration. This "elite" few don't give any more of a shit for the common man or woman's plight in the midst of all of this.
Here's what I see as a solution. I could be wrong, but here goes...
Instead of allowing people to have their jobs underbid, and therefore putting them out of work, hurting American people, if the American government is so concerned with the problems of these third world countries, send help to them! Like the analogy goes, give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day...teach him how to fish and he eats for a lifetime. In other words, instead of some rich-fuck saying: "Yeah, cross that border and work for next to nothing. I don't give a shit about this man and his family making enough to get by, you illegals will save me millions of dollars in man-power!" Rather, he should be saying: "Well, I really wanna help, but I gotta pay the guys I got already. Tell you what, I'll start a branch of business where you live, and together we'll work to build a better tomorrow for you and your family!"
Taking the rights away from one person just to give them to another doesn't benefit anybody, it just pulls everybody down, except of course the people who stand to save money and cash in on some more.
Another thing I take offense to, not so much your opinion mystik, but the opinion I've seen out of people when this subject comes up. They tend to think that if anybody doesn't welcome illegal immigration with open arms, particularly white people, it's because they're "stupid bigots". The fact remains that it's not a race thing. Not when you see black people, white people, Asians, and Hispanics underbid by illegal immigration and raising hell about it together. The spin the media puts on it makes it seem like it's just "stupid, closed minded" white people who take issue with this, but that's because nobody feels sorry when white people get done wrong. In fact, a lot of the time folks will come away from something thinking it's a good thing if white people are done wrong...but that's beside the point.
The economy may drop if 14 million people suddenly get deported, but it would recover. And at the same time, if the government were to not only deport these people, but to HELP them establish something when they got back home, God forbid, their country may even move up from a third world status!
Again, turning your attention the other way when illegal immigration is going out of control for the most part isn't going to solve anything...it's just a quick fix, and quick fixes tend to wear off all too soon. Where will the immigrants go when America dries up? People seem to think this is a land of milk and honey, but like any other nation, we've only got so much wealth to go around. Why not use this wealth a little more wisely and to help these nations, rather than punish our own people? Because that's what's happening.
I heard a figure a little while back that stated that the minimum wage is lower now than it was 30 years ago. How, then, will any of the common class hope to get better wages if illegal immigrantion will keep these wages at the bottom? Again, nobody really benefits.
Okay, it's waaaayyyy past my bedtime. I haven't even proof-read this yet, but I hope I got my point across.
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Thats understandable, I know your not naive to this or the matter. You prove your point well, and I totally agree. I understand that a Hispanic working for 7.00 an hour and doesnt mind is better for business than an American wanting 9.00. People will scrounge for anything they can get, but the problem doesnt lie within immigration really. Theres always going to be someone willing to work for less, and you are a BIG minority Lou, in that you understand the situation maturely and fully. It's hard though...illegal immigration isnt the sole reason that minimum wage is so low. Did you know that C.E.O's make so much more now, then they did in 1998, that IF they raised minimum wage pay like they have done with C.E.O pay, minimum wage would be 17 dollars an hour. 17. Thats ridiculous. All that to make a handful of white guys richer. (I dont mean that in an offensive way, but lets face it, theyre all probably white) Rich people say that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer because they "invest" their money and the poor are stupid and spend it. What do you fucking do when theres no money to invest? Lets say you make 800 every two weeks. A common salary. Equates to 1600 a month. Minus Food, taxes, rent, utilities, gas, insurances...its real easy to invest money if you were given it or have it. But for those of us at the bottom, who have no money and are surviving on small cash flow, we cant really have investments. I still think we live a much more meaningful and interesting lifestyle though.
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heres my view i live in australia we have our fair share of illegal imagrants coming to our GREAT shores.Iam concerned with most of them coming from nations with extreme hatred for westerners i dont want illegal imagrants coming here.Illegal imagrants should be sent back to where they came from come here legally thats fine.
Posts: 53 | Registered: Sep 2004
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I think that in the next 2 yrs there will be mass deportations, I think it`s gonna bring about more negatives than positives, however there is only one way to find out.
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Lou has a point. If the countries that people were deporting from were prosperous contries with the freedom that we have here in the states, then people would have no reason to come here.
Posts: 4 | Registered: Mar 2004
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I too, like mystic, wouldn't be here if it werent for an illegal immigrant. Right now, its really late and I have to be up again in a few hours. I will post more tomorrow though. Having said my first statement, I'm sure that most of you know how I probably feel about this subject. Also, being from South Texas, about 2 or so hours away from the Mexican border, may also have helped shape my thoughts on this subject. Well, till tomorrow!
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I believe in the next 24 months we will witness mass deportations. We are going to help Latin America write a new chapter of it`s history. Once this people go back to countries that can not handle them, it wont take long for the civil unrest to boil over, 14 million warriors with nothing to lose. After a few years of bloodshed, they will have a better future, I just hope Castro`s ideas dont find a way to spread all over South America, the ride could get a little bumpy even for us.
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quote:Originally posted by sanlucas: I believe in the next 24 months we will witness mass deportations. We are going to help Latin America write a new chapter of it`s history. Once this people go back to countries that can not handle them, it wont take long for the civil unrest to boil over, 14 million warriors with nothing to lose. After a few years of bloodshed, they will have a better future, I just hope Castro`s ideas dont find a way to spread all over South America, the ride could get a little bumpy even for us.
How do you figure? Both Bush and Kerry (while he was running) made their stances clear on immigration, which were both for it. Kerry even went so far as to compare immigration to the Civil Rights movement, I guess to tug on any heart-strings people may have to soften any oppositional views, though I personally fail to see the comparison. Their stances were only a reflection of the Republican and Democratic parties as a whole, so I personally don't see any mass deportations any time soon, if ever.
I went back and re-read what Maddox said on this subject, and while I usually blow off whatever he has to say about anything (except for his review of the Ikaruga video game *lol*), I had to agree with his stance...that being, if people are going to come into America illegally, and the government is going to be so relaxed about it, then employers should be forced, by law if necessary, to pay illegal immigrants the same wages was American citizens. This would at least destroy the levy these employers are using in cashing in on "legalized slavery", and level the playing field for all workers, whether illegal immigrants or American citizens.
As for Castro's plan, I'm not really sure what you're refering to. The only thing I can think of involving Castro and immigration was his actions during the 70's, where he sent the criminals and inmates from insane asylums first when America said it would allow immigration from Cuba. Is this what you're refering to?
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Affirmative Action is another issue closely tied to this one, and it reminds me of Dave Chapelle's show, where he was brought on Donahue to discuss affirmative action. I got a good chuckly out of that, especially when someone tries to say how unfair affirmative action is. Immigration is touchy though. I am up to date with Mexico, my family has a house in Mexico, we go to Mexico twice a year. It's not getting better...its corrupt guys. It's so fucking corrupt. The Governor of Zacatecas, a state in Mexico, at one point made more money than Tony Blair. A government official getting paid how much in a 3rd world country? There are thousands of kidnappings and ransoms a year. A year back Mexico held a HUGE protest in Mexico city about that very same thing. The police are lazy. They are corrupt. Its disorganized. President Fox is trying his hardest to restore the country, they hired ex-New York Mayor Guliani to help restore Mexico City. I'm not trying to say that all hispanics should rush the border to get a better chance, but it's just so sad over there. Such disorganization. That is why people come here, to live a better life. Even if it means coming here illegally. If my father hadnt done that...I wouldnt be typing this to you today. I can't say that illegal immigration is a grand thing, it isnt. I just think there should be a system devised to measure immigration, or something I dunno. Im tired...
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