quote: Even knowing full well that things cannot be changed, some folks can't just sit back silently as they watch thier surroundings changed involuntarily.
Well said Brother Neo.
And the word "involuntarily" describes this situation to an exact T. Am I the only one who takes particular issue with the fact that the border opening situation is something that never comes up for vote with the public? Even more, I just love how the media plays it all up like it's always and only "stupid white bigots" who don't like the idea of it all. Like I've said before, I'm around black people all day long at my job, and I wish you folks could hear what practically all of them say about this as well...my point being, this is not a "'stupid, lazy' white people needlessly hating these 'honorable, hard-working' illegal immigrants" thing, it's about people having their country purposefully changed by the New World Order Gang, and all done in the name of the almighty dollar, under the guise of "equality"...and that's all it is. If these fat-cat richies didn't stand to line their pockets even further in all of this, you can bet your last dollar they wouldn't give no more of a hoot about "equality" than a dog caring about where he pooped last.
But, the thing that racks my brain is: what can be done about it? Voting? First of all, it never comes up for that. Secondly, what are the alternative options? Protest? Riot? Revolution? All three things would land a person in jail, and then what?
So yeah, I'd say a person, or rather the people, have every right to be angry, seeing their nation purposely changed and the citizens are getting their hands tied and mouthes gagged in the process. Freedom? *lol* Sh-yeah right...
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Yep yep. It's tricky to talk about..and listen to. America has it better than the rest of the world...so why is it that these countries can't get their act together and become intelligent enough to elevate their status. Mexico is bad. I was there twice a year, every year for the first 17 years of my life. Since I haven't been as much, but it annoys me to see how unintelligent the people are over there. The governor of Zacatecas at one point, was making more money than Tony Blair. How the fuck does that happen? One measly state in MEXICO, and he's making more money than one of the heads of Britain. Revolution won't happen...too much corruption over there. The Peso is 10 for every American dollar. It was 7 before. The government over there really has no idea what their doing, and even worse the people have no idea that the Government is clueless. There hadn't been a change in the political party in over 100 years. The PAN party, Vicente Fox, finally won the election, and things were going to get better. He's a great guy, just has no idea how to fix things, where to start, what to do. They have potential, just no brains to utilize it. I can't change a damn thing...just got to flow with the system until I die. Hopefully leave my legacy in the houses and buildings I create...
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I'm not angry at immigrants, just at your narrow and offensive viewpoint, mystik...
Yes, I was offended when you blamed "those lazy whites".
Sue me. Stop buying into whatever media-driven buzz-phrase gets you off the hook for being a racist.
And yes, this monkey is angry at rich bastards who only lust after more money, and let the "little people" suffer. Oh, the POOr wealthy... Boo-hoo-hoo...
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I didn't say all whites were lazy man relax. It's just that a lot are. Can you deny it? I'm not denying that hispanics like to get free benefits. That doesn't make it right. I'm not here to make enemies man, I'm just stating my view, and yes I agree with you. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, it's a damn shame. You're the first person to ever call me a racist, even people with much more compelling arguments than you have put forth, but that's fine. If that's what helps you go to sleep at night then go right ahead. I think I'm done with this topic in general for a while...discussing this, affirmative action and music is so difficult. Most of the time it's just not worth it.
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quote: I didn't say all whites were lazy man relax. It's just that a lot are. Can you deny it?
How about this; since you're asserting that so many white people are lazy, and you've done so a few times now, then please, show some proof. You can make a nasty generalization like that all day long, but without anything to back up the claim, then yes, mystik, you're sounding very racist. I'm one of the last guys in the world to call another person racist in their beliefs because I think it's usually nothing more than a black mark to be slapped onto a person to try and shut them up. God knows I've been called a racist so many times in debating people that I'm literally immune to it. However, I'm not saying you are a racist, but I am saying I can see how you'd be thought that way.
You say most white people are lazy. Fair enough. Now, what if I started making claims that most black people like to steal cars, or that most Asians are sneaky, or most Jews are money hungry, or most Mexicans are packing STD's, making these claims over and over, and didn't back any of those claims up...I'd be thought a racist in seconds flat and rightfully so, because they're just nasty stereo-types that are blanketing and demeaning.
Being a blue collar white person myself, I can attest to working along-side about every different creed of people you can imagine. Hard physical work, not office work (though that stuff is hard in its own way too), I'm talking getting your hands dirty, using your muscles, and usually winding up with a pain in your back at the end of the day. I can tell you from personal observation that I've seen MANY a white person, male and female, bust their ass just as hard as the Hispanic they're working alongside (and for that matter, many a black man and woman busting their asses too, many an Asain, etc). I've busted my ass too.
So, please, if you don't mind, and it's not asking too much, stop talking that way about "most white people" when you're not backing it up with either personal observations or figures. Also, please, if this isn't asking too much either, accept the fact that other people, not just white people, take issue with illegal immigration. I know it's easier, maybe even fun to an extent, to demonize the opponents of illegal immigration, if a white face is tacked onto it, but that's not a fact.
I agree with you that these opponents are targeting the wrong people, because I sure couldn't hold it against a person for wanting a better life for themselves and their kin, and these opponents should be targeting these chairmen and CEO's and whoever else who are outsourcing the businesses and/or hiring illegal help.
But again, to make a blanket statement about "most white people" makes you no better than somebody who blames the illegal immigrants solely for jobs getting taken away or underbidded. Both mind-sets are prejudicial, and both mind-sets are unfair and biased, and how can any of this mess even start to get resolved if we've got two false negativities clashing over it to begin with? Two wrongs have never made a right, at least to my knowledge.
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Im sorry, I didnt mean to come of as racist. It's just that around these parts, where there is a large hispanic population, most of the white's that try to provide an argument against immigrant's are very...well lazy. These are the same people who say they need work, higher paying jobs and such, but don't want to do the work required to do so. I don't mean to generalize, but I can't help but if I become generalized myself. I did some research on the subject actually, and 82% I believe of the hispanic believe that there is too much illegal immigration. So really you aren't alone. Once again, I don't mean to generalize white's or anything like that, and if that's how it came out then I apologize. Please Lou point out where I said most white people are lazy. I didn't. I said a lot are. Most of the people on welfare are white. These are the same people who blame immigrants for the lack of work. That's who I refer to. The argument you compelled doesn't make much sense when you're arguing against something I never said. I'm in white circles every day...I have to be. And I'm just curious as to how far my last name can take me if you catch my drift. A hispanic will never get to the point that a white man can...once again, I didn't mean to offend and say "all white people are lazy". It's just that the one's who feel like their too good for backbusting work need someone to blame, so why not illegals? I respect you and vasduten if you are part of the working class, 9-5, working your ass off to put food on the table. You've taken my statement's out of proportion, and if anywhere you think I implied that the majority of white's are lazy I apologize for that; not a racist just a fucker who's been discriminated far too many times.
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How much longer will this issue be ignored by the government, going back onto topic? Honestly, what is a good solution? Kerry wanted to have a "card program" where people would come in legally for a while, work, then go back. I don't know if I fully agree with that take on it, but it's an idea. Since I dont follow the Republican party, what has Bush proposed to do about it?
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quote: I don't mean to generalize white's or anything like that, and if that's how it came out then I apologize. Please Lou point out where I said most white people are lazy. I didn't. I said a lot are.
Okay, I'll concede that point. You didn't say "most", that was apparently my reading into you saying "a lot", and until I understood that you were refering certain circles of white people you're around, and not white people in general, I wasn't clear and assumed you were throwing the net of judgement out on all of us Caucasians. Apologies from me as well Bro.
As for your welfare numbers, I'll agree with you there, the numbers themselves are there, but that's not really accurate, believe it or not. What you need to do is take the welfare numbers and then counter them to the actual population numbers. You're correct, there are more white people on welfare than any other race, but at the same time there's a larger white population in this country. I can't recall exactly who was at the top of the most welfare recipients list about two years back when I did this comparison myself, but per capita whites were pretty low ranked.
Anyways, again, please accept my apologies for misconstruing some of your statements when I wasn't perfectly clear on them to begin with. I should've asked you to clarify a bit better before I started drawing conclusions.
Thinking about it, I think you and I are a lot alike in this. You say you've been prejudged, and I believe you and I can say the same thing. You see, I'm kind of a "good ol' boy" type of guy...Southern heritage, deep Southern drawl in my speech, not a lot of money, blue collar until the day I die...the full nine yards in other words, and I too have faced some very mean and degrading stereo-types out of people...so as a result, I guess my antennae are a little extra sensitive at times as well.
Peace.
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Hey its all good man. I didn't mean to get things all stirred up in the first place, so I guess things got blown out of proportion a bit. No biggie. Prejudices will exist till we die and beyond. I apologize for generalizing to a point, sometimes things get deep to the point where it gets confusing. Not just immigration and affirmative action, but the legal system too, which is another issue I've been struggling with. If 1 guy thinks God shouldn't be in the Pledge of Allegiance, and 100,000,000 think it should be...how does he win that? Ties in as well to those who sue for any God damn thing...
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First, thanks to Lou for having the patience to spell it out. My 1 year old daughter is sick, so the past week has been hell on earth for us... She's up 3-4 times a night crying ans screaming, nd even though the wife and I take turns getting up, neither of us is sleeping enough. So I apologize for getting miffed.
Mystik, I really wasn't blaming hispanics, or anyone but the rich on this one.
My rant about being a 4th generation painter was to provide an example of where the labor market is heading. I thought it did a good job, and did not point the finger or try to demean anyone. When someone comes out with a blanket statement, and tries to purport some skewed consensus view of a situation, (i.e. immigration,) one can only expect to see a rather harsh reaction to it. That's because most folks don't want to have their couterparts going around entertaining half-truths and all. I understand what Mexicans experience very well, I have many hispanic friend here in Atlanta. (The BEST party I've EVER been to was put on by Colombians. The beer flowed freely, and those grills NEVER shut off until 4 AM!!!) I wanted you to understand the whitey's P.O.V., that's all. Now that we've all got our sides out, and much like Elrond's meeting at Rivendell, here we are, what do we do about it? What CAN we do? We could all get very wealthy and start pushing other socialites around at high-society functions, and then go to Washington and lobby for the exploitation to stop. (I now, I'm daydreaming again...) The truth is, it IS a direct result of the wealthy pushing their weight around in the capitol, and until folks actually PHYSICALLY try to stop others from immigrating, and cause a fucking RIOT, and lots of people die, then nobody will care.
Welcome to America. Have you ever seen footage of chickens looking at the light and then they get their heads lopped off? The light is the T.V., and the chickens are the ignorant masses. Hehehe... The Matrix may have shown a PHYSICAL depiction of people being stuck in cocoons and being used for batteries, but in reality they are kept in mental cocoons and worked to death. Just so much enrgy in the form of LABOR. Somewhere, the devil is laughing so hard he is peeing his pants...
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Sorry to hear about your daughter. And yeah, I would be frustrated if I was you. Didn't mean to say "Stop bitching" or anything, because it is unfair. I don't know what can be done, Kerry's plan was a bit odd, but hell, it was still a plan. Guess it's to be ignored until this whole Iraq mess is over...
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Sorry to hear about your little girl Vasduten, I hope she gets better ASAP.
Well, before I say anything on the topic, I just wanted to take a minute and thank you guys for all this disagreement blowing over. If we were talking in person I'd buy everybody a beer right now.
As for what Bush had planned, honestly mystik I don't know. I remember reading something about him granting automatic citizenship, providing they're working or something like that, but this was easily over a year ago when I read article, and it was just a quick read as I was bagging the papers for my route (back when I was a paper boy for a second job). If he had any kind of update to the plan, or if it even got carried out or attempted to be carried out in the first place is beyond me.
I think you're right, we're going to have to wait until this mess in Iraq is finished up first before we see anything...
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quote: Question for you guys...Which one of you just won the hand???
Nobody, IMO. We're just debating the different sides of the issue. What I like about these kinds of talks though is that you tend to find more like-minds than opponents, really, no matter what side of the fence you sit on.
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I think I'm done with this topic in general for a while...discussing this, affirmative action and music is so difficult. Most of the time it's just not worth it.
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Nobody, IMO. We're just debating the different sides of the issue. What I like about these kinds of talks though is that you tend to find more like-minds than opponents, really, no matter what side of the fence you sit on. 
